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Thread: Which came first, Faith, or God's plan in Jesus?

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    tWebber
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    Which came first, Faith, or God's plan in Jesus?

    Which came first, Faith, or God's plan in Jesus
    What are the implications if Faith came first?
    What are the implications if God's plan came first?
    How God's omniscience play in these issues?

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    Not sure if there is even a "first" but rather there is one eternal now.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by foudroyant View Post
    Not sure if there is even a "first" but rather there is one eternal now.
    Doesn't that will fall into pantheism?

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    No, because God exists outside of the time He created which makes Him no dependent upon it.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by foudroyant View Post
    No, because God exists outside of the time He created which makes Him no dependent upon it.
    I believe that pantheists will not have a problem in their view regardless of a distinction of the creator to his creation. What you did is just explain a part of God. Even in a metaphysical realm, what I thought would not really differ to who I am. Even when we consider God to be a mind (the closest we can speak of a transcendent being) yet we cannot make a sense with a mind that does not have ideas, and physical manifestations.

    But there is even greater problem with your belief; it is of how would you explain that man had a faith independent from God, that made God to had a plan in his first move on creation?

    My point is that the word "plan" in your worldview of godhead is actually nonsensical. Isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarEastBird View Post
    Which came first, Faith, or God's plan in Jesus
    God's plan in Christ was in place prior to the creation. So it came first.


    Quote Originally Posted by FarEastBird View Post
    What are the implications if God's plan came first? How God's omniscience play in these issues?
    Our ability to comprehend God is limited to what He chooses to reveal. His omniscience is always in play and always beyond our ability to define it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foudroyant View Post
    No, because God exists outside of the time He created which makes Him no dependent upon it.
    God exists outside the time He created, but He exists in some state that we are not now and never will be able to fully comprehend.

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    tWebber IDScience's Avatar
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    I fairly certain it was the egg, and everything else came after

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    God's plan in Christ was in place prior to the creation. So it came first.
    Our ability to comprehend God is limited to what He chooses to reveal. His omniscience is always in play and always beyond our ability to define it.
    Then the problem remains that to say God planned is nonsensical. You are admitting two concept of time here in which, I believe, the latter is your preferred meaning.

    And to my understanding, you preferred the second concept of time because you cannot make a coherent reason of why God's planned came first from the first concept of time.

    Our ability to comprehend God is limited to what He chooses to reveal. His omniscience is always in play and always beyond our ability to define it.

    I can understand about our limited knowledge, but what is being revealed in a thing that is not coherent? It even confuses me of what time is.

    On one hand, I can make an interpretation of the revelation which is reasonable and sound, so why would I take your word?

    Paul said, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." And Isaiah says, " So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

    So what is the point giving us incoherent words that, not only we cannot comprehend it, but we also don't know what it accomplishes.

    If I will take your word, or your meaning of time, I'll have to throw away many things of what I understand about time, and consider them my delusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDScience View Post
    I fairly certain it was the egg, and everything else came after
    That's possible. Isn't it the angels existed before the heaven and the earth? And angels have "feathers," you know?

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