Controversy on Christianity Today's website

[Darth Executor]

The perpetrator has achieved more insight:

Author's Note: In response to readers' concerns, the author of this piece has offered the following clarification: "I recognize that what I initially considered a consensual relationship was actually preying on a minor. Youth pastors who do the same are not "in relationship" but are indeed sexual predators. I take 100 percent of the responsibility for what happened."

That reads like something out of the Onion. "I know recognize that an act which I did not premeditate was actually an act that requires premeditation."

Even if the girl was in high school (he doesn't say how long the relationship was going on), it was an unequal relationship with respect to power, authority, and responsibility.

Of course it was and that's how most women like them.

Not only was he about twice her age, he held a position of ministerial responsibility for her from the time she was in middle school. His early 'nurturing' of the 'relationship' is more properly called grooming on the part of a predator who abuses his position on an unsuspecting child.

It's only "more properly called grooming" if you're insane. Grooming is something you do intentionally with the intent to have sex with that child. This guy got too friendly with someone he shouldn't have. If his story is accurate, it's not grooming, even if he now claims it is after the Internet Inquisition was done with him and his host.

By the way, at what age do you think the girl might be old enough for execution on account of her role in this relationship?

That would be a matter for a judge to decide.

Are you also rethinking or ambivalent about your opposition to the death penalty for homosexuals?

I'm rethinking or ambivalent about my opposition to the death penalty for stupid questions.

[Darth Executor]

Perhaps. I read it differently, but you may understand Cow Poke better than me.

Yes, differently as in wrongly:

"The "Youth Pastor" starts by pretty much bragging that he built a large youth ministry from a very small one -- pride."

Since the article was written by Current Writer (barring time machine shenanigans) CP could not have been referring to the guy pre-crime.

The rest of his comment was certainly about the past, ie, where was the pastor at that time.

The rest of his comment is not related to what we were squabbling about.

[robrecht]

That reads like something out of the Onion. "I know recognize that an act which I did not premeditate was actually an act that requires premeditation."

Of course it was and that's how most women like them.

It's only "more properly called grooming" if you're insane. Grooming is something you do intentionally with the intent to have sex with that child. This guy got too friendly with someone he shouldn't have. If his story is accurate, it's not grooming, even if he now claims it is after the Internet Inquisition was done with him and his host.

That would be a matter for a judge to decide.

I'm rethinking or ambivalent about my opposition to the death penalty for stupid questions.

I won't claim to know how a predator's mind works, but I suspect at least some of it is instinctive and subconscious. If he admits to being a predator, I would simply accept him at his word at this point.

The death penalty and the legal age are not only up to a judge to decide. Prosecutors have some leeway and there is also legislative representation of the electorate. But that's OK if you do not want to answer the question as to what you think about it.

[robrecht]

Yes, differently as in wrongly:

"The "Youth Pastor" starts by pretty much bragging that he built a large youth ministry from a very small one -- pride."

Since the article was written by Current Writer (barring time machine shenanigans) CP could not have been referring to the guy pre-crime.

The rest of his comment is not related to what we were squabbling about.

Like I say, you may be right. Perhaps Cow Poke was only talking about the author's pride while writing the article, in which case I think his pride is even more misplaced given his current situation and that of the youth group. Personally, if he is still proud of what he accomplished, I would not be surprised if he was proud previously.

[Darth Executor]

Like I say, you may be right. Perhaps Cow Poke was only talking about the author's pride while writing the article, in which case I think his pride is even more misplaced given his current situation and that of the youth group. Personally, if he is still proud of what he accomplished, I would not be surprised if he was proud previously.

There is no pride evident in the article. He may or may not still be proud, but the part CP quoted ain't it. That's what we were debating about.

[Darth Executor]

I won't claim to know how a predator's mind works, but I suspect at least some of it is instinctive and subconscious. If he admits to being a predator, I would simply accept him at his word at this point.

Except it's impossible for a sane, rational human being to accept him at his word because (as I pointed out already and you ignored) his "confession" is absurd. He is confessing to an act (grooming) that requires premeditation while also claiming he was unaware that he was premeditating at the time. We have his quasi-detailed story and there's no mention of him grooming anybody. He's also a sex offender in prison who is better off not protesting his innocence at this point.

The death penalty and the legal age are not only up to a judge to decide. Prosecutors have some leeway and there is also legislative representation of the electorate. But that's OK if you do not want to answer the question as to what you think about it.

I don't think there's a clear cut-off age.

[robrecht]

Except it's impossible for a sane, rational human being to accept him at his word because (as I pointed out already and you ignored) his "confession" is absurd. He is confessing to an act (grooming) that requires premeditation while also claiming he was unaware that he was premeditating at the time. We have his quasi-detailed story and there's no mention of him grooming anybody. He's also a sex offender in prison who is better off not protesting his innocence at this point.

I don't think there's a clear cut-off age.

I did not ignore your comment, but said rather that I suspect at least some of it is instinctive and subconscious, ie, not necessarily fully conscious. I'm pretty sure I am neither insane nor irrational about this.

[Cow Poke]

As a pastor, he's supposed to be a spiritual leader of his church, someone who exemplifies godliness. Abusing power and committing adultery are antithetical to that. So even if the girl threw herself at him, it's still absolutely his responsibility to stay pure and NOT COMMIT A FELONY LIKE STATUTORY RAPE.

Just a point of clarification... I meant that the PASTOR (the senior pastor) of the Church has some culpability in the conduct of his "youth pastor", as the senior pastor is responsible for all staff and leadership of the church. So, even though the senior pastor is not mentioned here, I still believe he bears some responsibility for this happening in his church.

[Cow Poke]

You appear to have some chronological issues. The pride comment CP made was in regard to the article, not how he was prior to his offense.

The "youth pastor", in my opinion, was full of pride, which preceded his fall.

[Cow Poke]

It's only "more properly called grooming" if you're insane. Grooming is something you do intentionally with the intent to have sex with that child. This guy got too friendly with someone he shouldn't have. If his story is accurate, it's not grooming, even if he now claims it is after the Internet Inquisition was done with him and his host.

At great peril to my own reputation, I'm going to agree with DE on this point --- I don't think we have a reason to believe it was "grooming". Nor do I necessarily see premeditation here. It may have "just developed" over time, but it did so on the senior pastor's watch, and I still believe he bears some culpability.

[robrecht]

The "youth pastor", in my opinion, was full of pride, which preceded his fall.

Happy Father's Day, Cow Poke. Any special plans today? My buddyboys gave me some cool gifts they made and my wife is making me Eggs Benedict, even as we speak.

[robrecht]

At great peril to my own reputation, I'm going to agree with DE on this point --- ...

He's right every once in a while.

[Cow Poke]

Happy Father's Day, Cow Poke. Any special plans today? My buddyboys gave me some cool gifts they made and my wife is making me Eggs Benedict, even as we speak.

Same to ya, Rob! Preaching this morning on "Game Changers" -- long story, but our community - particularly our school district - is gearing up with a "Game Changers" program which is a special initiative to have a greater personal impact on the lives of the youth of our community. Our Police Chief, head football coach, school superintendent, mayor, city manager, county judge, and numerous other public officials are all professing Christians, and are reaching out to our Churches to get involved.

About 15 of our local churches (mine included) have agreed to make today "Game Changer Sunday", preaching about Christ as the ULTIMATE Game Changer* -- and challenging our people to be Game Changers, as well.

After Church, my daughter and a couple of Church members are taking me to lunch for STEAK and taters!


*there's no pre-arranged sermon outline or anything -- we agreed if you can't preach Christ as "the Ultimate Game Changer", you need to find something else to do besides preaching.

[Obsidian]

At what age do you believe a person (male and female) are old enough to be punished for this?
If the girl was 12 would you be willing that she be punished in the same way as say a 16 year old....17?

Just curious as to what you believe at what age a person should be fully culpable as the other party (legal adult).

I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible that lists an age, but it really seems to me like a twelve-year-old should know what marriage is.

[robrecht]

I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible that lists an age, but it really seems to me like a twelve-year-old should know what marriage is.

So do you think that a twelve-year-old should be stoned for adultery, or do you have another preferred method of execution of 12-year-old adulterers?