What if the "Ark" is found?

[ArchaicGuy]

Runtmc2jc: No, I haven't seen any of the sulfur balls in the archaeological site near Qumran. I wish I had a couple of the sulfur balls to add to my rock collection from the Dead Sea area. As to speculation of what destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to account for the sulfur balls in the Dead sea area. I would theorise it was the result of a meteorite of comet impact nuking S&G from existence?

[mikeledo]

Mikeledo: I heard the Numeria site maybe linked to Gomorrah. I don't agree that it is. Abram and Lot were standing on Ba'al Hazor(Sp?) between Bethel and Ai. Ba'al Hazor can be seen from the Northern part of the Dead Sea region. Ba'al Hazor cannot be seen from the southern Dead Sea region nor can the southern part of the Dead Sea be seen from Ba'al Hazor. Sodom and Gomorrah have to be in the Northern area of the Dead Sea region. Correction: What is mentioned on maps as the Christian traditional site for Gilgal is northeast of Jericho.

I discount that story of Abram and Lot.

[shunyadragon]

thanks for your opinion shuny...but i wanted to know if archaicguy had any first hand experience with this phenomena in the Dead Sea Area.

Suflur balls are sulfur balls, they are very normal secondary deposits of elemental sulfur, which I will provide more detail shortly.

[ArchaicGuy]

Mikeledo: Why do you discount Genesis ch:13?

[mikeledo]

Mikeledo: Why do you discount Genesis ch:13?

My research into the OT is unlike any you have seen or read. I have isolated what I believe to be the "original" text. I suggest the OT was built in stages as a living document similar if not identical to the style in which the Epic of Gilgamesh. I don't discount the whole chapter, just most of it. This is what I believe the original text would have looked like:

12:1 Now YHWH said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee: 3a and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse.12:4a So Abram went, as YHWH had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him.6aAnd Abram passed through the land unto the place of Shechem, unto the oak of Moreh. 9a And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the South.

13:5 And Lot also, who went with Abram, had flocks, and herds, and tents. 7a And there was strife between the herdsmen of Abram's cattle and the herdsmen of Lot's cattle. 8a And Abram said unto Lot 9b separate thyself, I pray thee, from me. If [thou wilt take] the left hand, then I will go to the right. 10a And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the Plain of the Jordan 2b and moved his tent as far as Sodom.

[ArchaicGuy]

Mikeledo: You can't leave out Abram and Lot in Egypt. Chapter 13 starts with them leaving Egypt going NORTH into southern Canaan. They continued going North until they reached Bethel. Bethel is North of Jerusalem not south. Are you sure you can read a map? Standing on Mount Ba'al Hatzor which is between Bethel and Ai both being north of Jerusalem when you face toward the east you would see the plain of the Jordan river.

[Maimonides]

My research into the OT is unlike any you have seen or read. I have isolated what I believe to be the "original" text. I suggest the OT was built in stages as a living document similar if not identical to the style in which the Epic of Gilgamesh. I don't discount the whole chapter, just most of it. This is what I believe the original text would have looked like:

12:1 Now YHWH said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee: 3a and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse.12:4a So Abram went, as YHWH had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him.6aAnd Abram passed through the land unto the place of Shechem, unto the oak of Moreh. 9a And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the South.

13:5 And Lot also, who went with Abram, had flocks, and herds, and tents. 7a And there was strife between the herdsmen of Abram's cattle and the herdsmen of Lot's cattle. 8a And Abram said unto Lot 9b separate thyself, I pray thee, from me. If [thou wilt take] the left hand, then I will go to the right. 10a And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the Plain of the Jordan 2b and moved his tent as far as Sodom.

You have piqued my interest. More info on this would be greatly appreciated.

[mikeledo]

Mikeledo: You can't leave out Abram and Lot in Egypt. Chapter 13 starts with them leaving Egypt going NORTH into southern Canaan. They continued going North until they reached Bethel. Bethel is North of Jerusalem not south. Are you sure you can read a map? Standing on Mount Ba'al Hatzor which is between Bethel and Ai both being north of Jerusalem when you face toward the east you would see the plain of the Jordan river.

I do leave out Lot and Abram in Egypt. The verses at the beginning of chapter 12 and that of 13 are nearly identical. Abram and Lot travel to the land which God had promised them. This is what is known as "resumptive repetition." Scholars claim it is simply a literally device in the Bible. However, in Gilgamesh, resumptive repetition is used exclusively to insert new material, ie. material that was not in the original text. We know this for a fact because we have the older texts. We don't have any older texts of the Bible than the DSS, which has evidence additions to the Bible were still being made at that late date.

When we eliminate Abram in Egypt, we therefore must eliminate Hagar, Ismael, and the Ishmaelites. The story that is left is a bare bone story which corresponds to the ancient meaning of the stars and constellations and becomes a story similar to other religions and myths. Sarah now becomes a younger woman and does not have a barren birth. Only Rebecca has a barren birth. Barren births were associated with the sign of Cancer and no other. Abram was assosiated with the ancient constellation of Asad, which associated him with the summer solstice. When the summer solstice moved from Leo into Cancer, the priests or scribes deemed Abram should still have some kind of connection to the solstice so they added the additional barren birth story as well as other stories.

We now have a wonderful story which fits hand and glove with the ancient view of the constellations. The battle between Lot and Abram's farm hands now become a pivotal part of the story. This is the division of farm land between Hercules and Orphiuchus. Here the ancient stars signified a division of pasture lands. Lot travels south to Libra, or Sodom where there is a judgement. In Egypt the story is reversed. There is first a judgement followed my a divison of lands between Horus and Set. One wears the red crown (Northern Crown) and the other the white (Southern Crown.) The meaning of the stars and constellations are basically the same between the two cultures, however the story used to explain them appear alien to each other.

The story moves to Cancer and Isaac. The two main features of Cancer represent an Oasis -this would sometimes be a cave and later would be a manger (Greek) or an inn (Roman). The other feature is the barren birth. This was due to Cancer's original association with the scarb or dung beetle which appeared to have barren births. This would evolve to virgin births and would be associated with Virgo. Hence you get a solar god born to a virgin as the popular savior god of later myths. The two main features of the story of Issac would be the meeting of the servent and Rebecca at the oasis or watering hole and the barren birth of the twins, which moves nicely into Gemini.

There are two stars in Cancer associated with the ass. However this association came later. This is when Ishmael who was associated with the ass would have been added to the story.

Now a lot of you would say that some of these associations might be a stretch or coincedental. However, I have been able to do this for the entire story of second creation through the crowning of Solomon (which Freidman claims was the length of the original text). This includes 48 constelltions, hundreds of stars and is done in a basic contiguous fashion.

At the winter solstice, we just happen to have the story of the solar Samson whose eyes are put out and hair (rays of sun) is cut. This star also represents the temple of Dagon in ancient times as well as the solstice.

Joshua and the incident where the sun stood still, happens to fall at the foot of Pegasus where there was a super nova. In ancient times this part of the sky would shine bright and was considered a night time sun. This is also the spot in the constellations where the Apollo had his chariot stolen (the one which pulls the sun) and driven out of control.

[ArchaicGuy]

Mikeledo: Your answer is the same Documentary Hypothesis antisemetic garbage I have seen before.

[mikeledo]

Mikeledo: Your answer is the same Documentary Hypothesis antisemetic garbage I have seen before.

There is nothing antisemetic about my hypothesis. Nor is it one you have seen before, unless it was from me.

[Maimonides]

Mikeledo: Your answer is the same Documentary Hypothesis antisemetic garbage I have seen before.

Personally I find it appalling that you would respond to Mikeledo's well-thought out, cogent, articulate presentation with this vitriolic and rather puerile insult.

[runtmc2jc]

The sulfur balls are a natural phenomenon in many formations like these around the world and not at all related to the Catastrophic event that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

perhaps 'fire and brimstone' rained down in multiple locations, the Dead Sea area being just one of them.

[shunyadragon]

perhaps 'fire and brimstone' rained down in multiple locations, the Dead Sea area being just one of them.

Fire and brimstone better fits volcanic events, which can be quite sulfurous, and the source of a great deal of the sulfur that forms sulfur balls, and other secondary elemental sulfur deposits, not falling sulfur balls. The mechanisms for elemental sulfur deposites are well known and can be easliy reproduced experimentally.

[ArchaicGuy]

Maimonides: As I said to Mikeledo "you can't leave out Abram and Lot in Egypt." Mikeledo's contellations have nothing to do with the account of Abram and Lot in Genesis chapters 12-13. It is the same mixing pagan ideas into the Jewish scriptures in an attempt to invalidate the Jewish scriptures. It is the same 'Documentary Hypothesis anti-semetic garbage' I have seen before. Higher Criticism is Higher Anti-semetism.

[mikeledo]

Maimonides: As I said to Mikeledo "you can't leave out Abram and Lot in Egypt." Mikeledo's contellations have nothing to do with the account of Abram and Lot in Genesis chapters 12-13. It is the same mixing pagan ideas into the Jewish scriptures in an attempt to invalidate the Jewish scriptures. It is the same 'Documentary Hypothesis anti-semetic garbage' I have seen before. Higher Criticism is Higher Anti-semetism.

The document hypothesis has been written about by Richard Elliot Freidman, a Jew. I suppose he is anti-Semetic too. I look for facts, not fairy tales. I don't believe William Tell existed, but I don't hate my Swiss ancestors. The existance or non-existance of Biblical characters and the truth of the Bible does not make me anti-Semetic. In fact I believe the Jews to have been wonderful astrologers and story-tellers. They blended fact and fiction in such a way as to create a history of the heavens and earth (Gen. 2:4a).