Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 125

Thread: Don Carson on Hell

  1. #1
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,089
    Amen (Given)
    458
    Amen (Received)
    317

    Don Carson on Hell



    Discuss what you agree and disagree with and why.

  2. #2
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Next to you
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,807
    Amen (Given)
    1301
    Amen (Received)
    3381
    I strongly agree with much of it, and strongly disagree with some of it. I have to take issue with the idea that adopting annihilationism is based purely out of emotion; this seems to verge almost on poisoning the well given that I believe the scriptural arguments for it are quite strong. Obviously, I wouldn't expect Carson to go into more detail in a short video but I did see a few problems with what he said. Using the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus as a proof text against it doesn't work because the parable, at most, refers to the intermediate state (after all, the rich man's brothers are still alive on Earth). I also don't think Revelation 14 is the knock-down text he thinks it is, but I'm not going to go into all that detail right here.

    I do think Carson is completely correct that there is not a biblical hint of restoration.

    Glenn Peoples has critiqued some of what Carson has written elsewhere on the subject (this is a long page so I'd just control-F his name): http://www.rightreason.org/article/t...ilationist.pdf
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

  3. #3
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    TN
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,092
    Amen (Given)
    270
    Amen (Received)
    106
    I think the idea that people stay in hell because they continue sinning is a little concerning.

  4. #4
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Next to you
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,807
    Amen (Given)
    1301
    Amen (Received)
    3381
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    I think the idea that people stay in hell because they continue sinning is a little concerning.
    Yes, I think this idea, which has no scriptural support, implicitly opens the door for universalism because it raises the obvious question: What if one stops sinning/repents?
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

  5. #5
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Finland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,750
    Amen (Given)
    4210
    Amen (Received)
    2682
    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Yes, I think this idea, which has no scriptural support, implicitly opens the door for universalism because it raises the obvious question: What if one stops sinning/repents?
    What if repenting is no longer an option?

  6. #6
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Next to you
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,807
    Amen (Given)
    1301
    Amen (Received)
    3381
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    What if repenting is no longer an option?
    Then the philosophical speculation justifying hell's duration based on a continual sinning is superfluous.
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

  7. #7
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    TN
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,092
    Amen (Given)
    270
    Amen (Received)
    106
    Along with your concern about universalism, Gambit, there is another even greater problem with the theory. Namely, it implies that God requires people to stop sinning in order to be forgiven. That is something I adamantly reject.

  8. #8
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,089
    Amen (Given)
    458
    Amen (Received)
    317
    I think Carson would agree that people's innate hostility toward God will only become more and more pronounced and they will therefore never choose to genuinely repent - in fact they will do everything but that.

  9. #9
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    TN
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,092
    Amen (Given)
    270
    Amen (Received)
    106
    "Repent" -- Meaning what? We don't get saved by ceasing from sin, or for being sorry for our sins.

    Matthew 27
    3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

  10. #10
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,089
    Amen (Given)
    458
    Amen (Received)
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    "Repent" -- Meaning what? We don't get saved by ceasing from sin, or for being sorry for our sins.

    Matthew 27
    3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
    Well now, what sort of repentance did Judas demonstrate?

    "For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death" (2Cor. 7:10)

    I would imagine Judas' repentance consisted of the latter - indeed his repentance did literally lead to his death. Indeed, he was sorry not for the sin, as committed against God and Christ; but as it brought a load of present guilt and horror upon his mind, and exposed him to everlasting torment and the wrath of God. Did his repentance spring from the love of God, or was it destitute of saving faith in Christ? I think we both know the answer to that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •