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Bestiality: Can an animal "consent"?

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  • #61
    And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. (Acts 15:2, NASB).

    Paul dealt with other "issues" as well in his ministry.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Yeah, you have issues.
      I think I'm missing something. Why do you think foudroyant has issues?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        And now you're equivocating on interpretation - whether or not X is interpreted the same by every translator doesn't change the actual meaning of X - same with law. Ceremonial/administrative laws aren't at issue - so whether or not those vary from culture to culture (they often do) is irrelevant.

        And the issue you're actually bringing up is one of 'identifiers' - people who identify themselves as A but do not share the same values/beliefs/behaviors. The RINO/DINO things are examples of this. Calling yourself A doesn't make you the same as those who truly hold the values, et al, of A - so unless you can show that such behavior is typical of Christianity (as in prove, not state) then the point is not valid for our present purposes (tells us nothing about God's laws and humanity - the topic).
        Isn't the actual meaning of X determined by translation and interpretation? It doesn't matter what Christians believe "thou shalt not kill/murder" means anyway, since the original point was based on cross-cultural imprinting of God's law. What matters is how you define "cold-blooded murder". What about less universal tenets like having no other Gods, not working on the Sabbath, homosexuality, lust, astrology, witchcraft, blasphemy, idolatry, etc.?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
          I don't know about that. Homosexuality was present in Native American, ancient Greek, ancient Roman, Chinese, and Japanese cultures, among others. I'm willing to assume your statement is true for the sake of argument if you are willing to give me a straight answer to my question.
          One could claim that homosexuality was present in every culture that ever existed and feel confident of being right. Most probably it was. How it was accepted on the cultural whole is isn't historically verifiable. The warrior class and elite of these cultures were the main topics presented by extant historical sources. As for the N.A. Indians there may be exceptions but the only information I've seen, which is sparse, indicates the homosexual was given the same respect as those touched in the head. And another unverifiable assertion is as to the nature of the ancient homosexual relationship in comparison to the modern historical homosexual relationship. Was it more like the wild man love of prison sex or or an affectionate relationship. I'm thinking the comparison may not be one that a modern homosexual should really strive for.

          On another subject I recently watched a documentary on the origin of the Celts north of Greece during the Greek to Roman period. Rock art was presented showing bestiality with horses. Quite a bit of them to be precise, yet with no written script to elaborate the purpose of the rock art. The archaeologist suggested a religious significance indicating a public acceptance of the practice. Kind of how the Greek affiliation with homosexuality started I suppose.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
            I think I'm missing something. Why do you think foudroyant has issues?

            Looking forward to his response.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
              Isn't the actual meaning of X determined by translation and interpretation? It doesn't matter what Christians believe "thou shalt not kill/murder" means anyway, since the original point was based on cross-cultural imprinting of God's law. What matters is how you define "cold-blooded murder". What about less universal tenets like having no other Gods, not working on the Sabbath, homosexuality, lust, astrology, witchcraft, blasphemy, idolatry, etc.?
              Oh, so you agree with me completely? Cool!

              No? Then I suppose you have your answer - meaning is NOT reliant on interpretation. If it were then I can properly interpret your post to mean that you agree with me even though the text clearly says something completely different.

              That I can misconstrue your post is no more evidence that you agree with me than the fact that you can misconstrue Scripture is evidence that Scriptural meaning is secondary to 'interpretation'. Also, if your first point is correct (it isn't) then your second is moot - if 'actual meaning' rests in interpretation then it's foolish to discuss definition as any party can define however they please since meaning isn't objective or fixed.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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              • #67
                Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
                I think I'm missing something. Why do you think foudroyant has issues?
                Because he's rude, snappy, juvenile, and a confirmed sexist.
                http://web.archive.org/web/201308270...-don-t-want-to
                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                • #68
                  You got nothing that proves your point.

                  Run along now child.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                    Because he's rude, snappy, juvenile, and a confirmed sexist.
                    http://web.archive.org/web/201308270...-don-t-want-to
                    That, and his goofy Christian Nudist thread, and the nutty "run along now child" nonsense --- I think he's just creepy. I think he's too concerned about the flesh.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      Oh, so you agree with me completely? Cool!

                      No? Then I suppose you have your answer - meaning is NOT reliant on interpretation. If it were then I can properly interpret your post to mean that you agree with me even though the text clearly says something completely different.

                      That I can misconstrue your post is no more evidence that you agree with me than the fact that you can misconstrue Scripture is evidence that Scriptural meaning is secondary to 'interpretation'. Also, if your first point is correct (it isn't) then your second is moot - if 'actual meaning' rests in interpretation then it's foolish to discuss definition as any party can define however they please since meaning isn't objective or fixed.
                      Yeah, that was awkwardly worded, wasn't it? I was hoping he'd have a chance to unpack that, or reword it. Meaning isn't determined by translation. Meaning must be determined before translation. And meaning isn't simply determined by interpretation, but by good exegesis, which is a type of interpretation that examines the text using things like literary criticism, knowledge of the original grammar, understanding of the terminology, and the overall context to draw out the meaning.

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                      • #71
                        Cow Poke has a penchant for jumping into serious issues I bring up by saying something completely idiotic.

                        Check out his "reasoning" beginning in Post #3. From there it gets worse.

                        http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...the-Lord-Jesus

                        Oh yeah...and the goofy Christian Nudist thread" where even tabibito asserted the same thing I did which no one, including the grand Cow Poke himself with all his hot air, could refute.
                        Post #140
                        http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...lothing/page14
                        Last edited by foudroyant; 06-30-2014, 08:50 PM.

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                        • #72


                          Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                          Cow Poke has a penchant for jumping into serious issues I bring up


                          Serious issues? Like your goofy CHRISTIAN NUDIST thread?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                          • #73
                            See above tough guy.

                            So keep smacking yourself in hopes of coming up with a passage. Hit yourself harder - perhaps it will knock some sense into you.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                              See above tough guy.
                              Tough guy, eh? This from the "Christian nudist" who wants to talk about sex with animals, underage girls, and foreign girls who don't know what a real man is.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
                                Yeah, that was awkwardly worded, wasn't it? I was hoping he'd have a chance to unpack that, or reword it. Meaning isn't determined by translation. Meaning must be determined before translation. And meaning isn't simply determined by interpretation, but by good exegesis, which is a type of interpretation that examines the text using things like literary criticism, knowledge of the original grammar, understanding of the terminology, and the overall context to draw out the meaning.

                                I'd argue that meaning is never determined by interpretation but may be ascertained through interpretation. Barring some esoteric artistic endeavor designed to be interpreted rather than to have had a set meaning, the author should be presumed to know what they meant.
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                                Quill Sword

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