Pros and Cons to a written Constitution

[Jimmy Higgins]

It would seem that One Bad Pig is speaking from more of a strict constructionist standpoint.

Well, I just thought it appropriate to point out where the origin of the Jefferson cite was. I know One Bad Pig didn't know. Nor did the vast majority on here who wants church in everything.

Separation of church and state is not in the constitution, the establishment clause is.

Separation is inherent from Jefferson's own words. In the same breath, there was to be no interference of the private establishment of church, of which there has been none! Churches aren't even taxed. People are crying fowl, but these multi-billion dollar industries are getting a great deal in the US.

However, I don't think that they would have intended for the political climate to become such that there are lawsuits to remove publicly displayed manger scenes. The separation nonsense has gone too far.

I think it is a waste off time and money and resources to be fighting to remove manger scenes or even worse, pagan symbols of religion such as a christmas tree. Such things are representative of the people and their religion. Such are rooted way way back in history and have been celebrated for a long time. Its tradition, no one should be denying that.

However, in the same breath, you've got people trying to sneak religion into schools, using their 5 year old children with religious messages on candy canes, trying to get out the religion message. So the way I see it, both sides are messing up. You want christmas in a christian dominated school? Then you can't have children evangalizing in there as well. You can't have it all. You want religion, fine with me, but there is a median that the Right doesn't want to acknowledge. Tolerance works both ways. Right now, they are working against each other. It'd be nice if both sides could call a truce and work at bridging this rather childish gap that has formed.

[Bob Jenkins]

Funny how cowardly the pompous ... and short Socrates can become when he has no ammo. He just runs and runs.

Socrates likes the hit and run He has an open invitation to "debate" the Constitution in the Tennis Court but while hiding from that despicably picks at other posts.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Socrates likes the hit and run He has an open invitation to "debate" the Constitution in the Tennis Court but while hiding from that despicably picks at other posts.

Well maybe we are both wrong. I mean you are just starved for attention here and I'm the liar who claims that the bible says black people are inferior and that I wanted trillion of Americans to die in Iraq.

[Bob Jenkins]

Well maybe we are both wrong. I mean you are just starved for attention here and I'm the liar who claims that the bible says black people are inferior and that I wanted trillion of Americans to die in Iraq.

It seems we each have a "cross" to bear

[One Bad Pig]

Well, I just thought it appropriate to point out where the origin of the Jefferson cite was. I know One Bad Pig didn't know.

I knew about the letter, but not that it was used in the Supreme Court case you cited. Thanks for pointing that out.

Note, also, that Thomas Jefferson was not a part of the Constitutional Convention.

[Alden]

However, in the same breath, you've got people trying to sneak religion into schools, using their 5 year old children with religious messages on candy canes, trying to get out the religion message....Tolerance works both ways.

Interesting. The implication here is that these people are working as "counter-agents" or subversives trying to "sneak religion into schools" as you so charming put it. A further implication is that their faith could not possibly be genuine. This in itself is quite an intolerant thing to say.

[Bob Jenkins]

Interesting. The implication here is that these people are working as "counter-agents" or subversives trying to "sneak religion into schools" as you so charming put it. A further implication is that their faith could not possibly be genuine. This in itself is quite an intolerant thing to say.

I wouldn't say "counter-agents" - subversive is closer if not "right-on". My recollection is that, in the case of the candy, it was in direct oposition to the law, up held many times, that was told to the parents.

Maybe the faith of the parents impelled the civil disobedience, not necessarily criminal, but definetly a violation of established law.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Interesting. The implication here is that these people are working as "counter-agents" or subversives trying to "sneak religion into schools" as you so charming put it.

Huh?

A further implication is that their faith could not possibly be genuine.

How in the world did you get from what I said to that?

This in itself is quite an intolerant thing to say.

It would be, but that's not even close to what I said.

What I stated is that there is a median that both sides need to meet. Eliminating christmas from public schools is outright foolishness, in my opinion. However, so is using a child who isn't really conscious of "their" religion to evagelize.

The federal government needs to have a list showing what is and isn't appropriate, such as christimas stuff. Then the schools should all abide by it. However, that is where it ends. A school celebrating christmas is not promoting christianity.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Maybe the faith of the parents impelled the civil disobedience, not necessarily criminal, but definetly a violation of established law.

Its really only civil disobedience when you actually do it yourself, not use your child as a tool.

[Jimmy Higgins]

I knew about the letter, but not that it was used in the Supreme Court case you cited. Thanks for pointing that out.

I think it is ultimately crucial to note when that letter was cited. You have alot of people claiming Judges with Agendas are making this stuff up. However, when you note that such a case was ruled on in 1878, this really takes ammo out of the Evil Liberal Judges conspiracy theory.

[One Bad Pig]

I think it is ultimately crucial to note when that letter was cited. You have alot of people claiming Judges with Agendas are making this stuff up. However, when you note that such a case was ruled on in 1878, this really takes ammo out of the Evil Liberal Judges conspiracy theory.

How? It's not the first SC case I've disagreed with in one way or the other. A result I approve of doesn't excuse poor methodology. The SC has made some poor decisions in the past; it's never been called on it, though.

[Jimmy Higgins]

How? It's not the first SC case I've disagreed with in one way or the other. A result I approve of doesn't excuse poor methodology. The SC has made some poor decisions in the past; it's never been called on it, though.

Oh, so you are for bigomy then?

[CatholicSage]

A school celebrating christmas is not promoting christianity.

Merry Winter Solstice!!

Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. A school celebrating Christmas is celebrating a Christian holiday and therefore Christianity.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Merry Winter Solstice!!

Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. A school celebrating Christmas is celebrating a Christian holiday and therefore Christianity.

I'm sorry, but maybe I forgot when the transition occurred. Since when does Christmas have anything to do with Christianity? It certainly isn't all the capitalistic shopping, or all the alcohol consumption, or the higher suicide rate, or the pagan christmas caroles.

[Alden]

A further implication is that their faith could not possibly be genuine.

Huh?
How in the world did you get from what I said to that?

This:

However, so is using a child who isn't really conscious of "their" religion to evagelize.

...is how got to that. Never mind the fact that the bible makes remarks about "having faith like a child" and all that, Jimmy says that a child cannot be conscious of their religion. I guess that settles it!

The federal government needs to have a list showing what is and isn't appropriate, such as christimas stuff. Then the schools should all abide by it. However, that is where it ends. A school celebrating christmas is not promoting christianity.

Yeah, 'cause that would work.

You know, coming from someone who tends to rail against the current powers that be, this is an interesting proposal.

Since when does Christmas have anything to do with Christianity?

Obviously, you are not a golfer.