Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 51

Thread: Old Testament Laws and Modern Christianity

  1. #11
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    DownUnder
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,958
    Amen (Given)
    202
    Amen (Received)
    856
    Source: Hebrews 8:7

    For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

    © Copyright Original Source


    Source: Hebrews 8:13

    In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    © Copyright Original Source


    Not just the law - the entire Covenant is obsolete.
    Source: Ephesians 2:15

    having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

    © Copyright Original Source


    And the law of commandments contained in ordinances has been abolished.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  2. #12
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Faith
    RCC
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    533
    Amen (Given)
    9
    Amen (Received)
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by footwasher View Post
    Is it only the Jew who has been released from the teachings of men?
    No! Notice in A.John's Gospel that the first mass conversation of mankind occurred amoungst the Samaritians. Also, notice that Jesus didn't proclaim his supremacy to any Jew (including his own disciples).

  3. #13
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Unorthodox
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    561
    Amen (Given)
    6
    Amen (Received)
    14
    On the other hand, some may say that the Old Covenant only applied to Jews, that its rights and responsibilities only benefited or burdened Jews. However the following verse shows that an equivalent, invisible Covenant existed parallely to the Sinaitic Covenant, which applied similar rights and responsibilities on non-Jews:

    Romans 2:26So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

    Existence of this Covenant proved by a certification of compliance from God:

    Romans 2:29But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

    A good verse to show that "letter" means written contract and "spirit", moral obligation. Similarly, "flesh" equates unthinking, outward compliance and "spirit", weighted, inward living out of the image of God imprinted on the basal creature that is Man.

    28For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

  4. #14
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,265
    Amen (Given)
    512
    Amen (Received)
    347
    A battle cry amongst those who have yet to comprehend the gospel goes something like this: "But, but! If you are not under the law then you are free to sin and you are encouraging others to sin!"



    "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (Rom. 6:15-16)

    So, it's quite clear we are not under law, but rather under grace. So once again, does the fact that we are not under law but under grace give a license to sin?



    "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Tit. 2:11-12)
    Last edited by Scrawly; 07-07-2014 at 10:42 PM.

  5. #15
    tWebber stfoskey15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Central OK, USA
    Faith
    Deist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    465
    Amen (Given)
    788
    Amen (Received)
    103
    So is sin only defined by what is considered wrong in the New Testament?

  6. #16
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    DownUnder
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,958
    Amen (Given)
    202
    Amen (Received)
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by stfoskey15 View Post
    So is sin only defined by what is considered wrong in the New Testament?
    Certainly. All sin boils down in the end to a failure to love. Loving God and neighour is the law - all the other stuff just delineates the different ways that love can be violated (or upheld, as the case may be).
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  7. #17
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Unorthodox
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    561
    Amen (Given)
    6
    Amen (Received)
    14
    There are several diffrences between the old covenant and the new, but one important one is that the old had precepts that were spelled out. Though shalt not kill meant you should not commit murder.

    The new covenant had no precepts.

    Let me explain.

    “If you were hiding Jews in your basement, and Nazi storm troopers came to the door and asked if there were any Jews in your house, would you lie?”

    To lie would be a moral infraction. To not lie would also be immoral. So there is no guidance from conscience. The old covenant is of no help here.

    How would a new covenant believer act? What is the role of his new spirit in deciding the course of action?

    The answer is found in the following verse:

    James 2:25In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

    Rahab was born again. She switched loyalty from the world to God and that loyalty decided the course of action. Just as Abraham's new loyalty to God decided the course of action.

    The new spirit is therefore, the spirit of loyalty.


    Acts 17:22So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. 23“For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.

  8. #18
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    TN
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,262
    Amen (Given)
    422
    Amen (Received)
    129
    The non-ceremonial laws still apply. While it is true that Christians are under grace, the same could have been said for Moses and Joshua. "Under grace" refers to justification before God, not to practical obedience. Moses did not get to heaven by obeying law, but rather through grace. The same applies to us. But of course Christians are subject to laws in certain ways, similar to how Moses was subject. To the people that say only the repeated laws must be obeyed, Jesus repeated the entire law with just two pithy laws of his own; hence, the whole law was repeated.

    1 Corinthians 9
    20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

  9. #19
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,265
    Amen (Given)
    512
    Amen (Received)
    347
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The non-ceremonial laws still apply. While it is true that Christians are under grace, the same could have been said for Moses and Joshua. "Under grace" refers to justification before God, not to practical obedience. Moses did not get to heaven by obeying law, but rather through grace. The same applies to us. But of course Christians are subject to laws in certain ways, similar to how Moses was subject. To the people that say only the repeated laws must be obeyed, Jesus repeated the entire law with just two pithy laws of his own; hence, the whole law was repeated.

    1 Corinthians 9
    20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
    Oh yes, as highlighted in Titus 2:11-12, obedience is a manifestation of the grace of God is one's life - as the grace of God literally instructs us to say "No" to sin.

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Posts
    1,334
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The non-ceremonial laws still apply. While it is true that Christians are under grace, the same could have been said for Moses and Joshua. "Under grace" refers to justification before God, not to practical obedience. Moses did not get to heaven by obeying law, but rather through grace. The same applies to us. But of course Christians are subject to laws in certain ways, similar to how Moses was subject. To the people that say only the repeated laws must be obeyed, Jesus repeated the entire law with just two pithy laws of his own; hence, the whole law was repeated.

    1 Corinthians 9
    20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
    I am person who says only the repeated laws must be obeyed from the Old Covenant. I have two questions:
    1. Where is it spelled out what are the so-called non-ceremonial laws and ceremonial laws?
    2. In your citation do you mean Paul?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •