Questions about Genesis

[bobazilla]

Genesis says God created all of Creation in 6 days, this led me to some random thoughts, and I wonder what others think of the following questions:

If god created the pieces of creation in some type of sequential order, does that mean God is subjected to time? Does he have to follow a linear time like the rest of us? Is there something about creation that requires one piece to be "built" before others can be added?

Why did he create creation in pieces? Why not just do it all in one grand flash of creation? Why one piece after another? There was noone there to see this, so was it just for his own satisfaction? (We only have God's word he did it in 6 days, filtered through Moses.)

If God is subject to some type of linear time, then what did he do before the creation of the universe?

Thanks in advance....
Bobazilla

[Bald Ape]

Theistic reply (IIRC): God created in 6 days to serve as a model to mankind that it is good to work for 6 days and rest on the 7th day.

[bobazilla]

But why couldn't God just say it? Why an example?

Also, why 6 days of work and one day off? Why not 10 & 2? Or 1 & 1, or any other combination of work days and days off?

Is it a case of "Cause I said so!" or because the underlying culture had settled on 7 days as a "week" and wrote the myth to fit what the culture was already doing?

Also, (I like alsos), if you are religious and only work 5 days a week are you sinning? Or what about the relaxed attitude most people have now about working on the Sabbath (whatever day that is)? Are they sinning too?

These questions must drive HR departments nuts all around the world.

But anyway....I'm still curious....did God have to use linear time like us other mere mortals to create creation? Could he do it all at once? Is creation an act that requires rest afterwards?

Bobazilla

[TheFiveSolas]

bob,
I would have to say that the temporal order of God's creation was chosen by Him so that we could derive certain theological inferences from it.

For example, many ancient cultures worshipped the Sun as being the source of life since its light is necessary for warmth and growth. God's creation of light prior to the creation of the Sun militates against such a view. It keeps in focus the fact that God is the source of light and therefore life.

[TheFiveSolas]

bob,
Of course God could have created everything all at once. However, it pleased Him to do it in six days.

With regards to God's resting, it was not because He was tired. Rather, it was akin to what a lawyer does when he finishes arguing his side of the case. He rests his case. God finished His acts of creation, therefore He rested from (i.e., finished) creating, took a step back, examined His handiwork and said, "its very good."

[bobazilla]

Today @ 08:42 PM post located here
Bald Ape:

Theistic reply (IIRC): God created in 6 days to serve as a model to mankind that it is good to work for 6 days and rest on the 7th day.

The problem with this is Adam & Eve had no need of a 6 day work week. They were in an earthly paradise that God created just for them. They weren't toiling or suffering (and were thus resting 7 days a week). It wasn't until after the fall that a 6-day work week was required.

So, if God did creation in 6 days and rested on the 7th as a "model" for humanity, then he would have to know that Adam & Eve (and thus humanity) were going to FALL. So it means that God setup A&E (and thus humanity) for failure.

[Dr.GH]

It seems to me that the emphasis in Genesis 1-3 is a mixed text.

For the 6 day of labor, one day rest issue, we need only look to ther second Babylonian exile.

This was a very important means to keep the "people" separate from others.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Today @ 04:53 AM post located here
Dr.GH:
It seems to me that the emphasis in Genesis 1-3 is a mixed text.

What do you mean by mixed text?

For the 6 day of labor, one day rest issue, we need only look to ther second Babylonian exile.

This was a very important means to keep the "people" separate from others.

What do you also mean by this?

[bobazilla]

I'm still wondering about why God would set a week of 6 days of work and one day off as a "model" for mankind to live by, when Adam & Eve wouldn't need that model until after the fall.

[Sher]

Since we are starting to just have an inkling of the interrelationships between man/beast/earth/universe, not to mention the illogical decision to question God, the very question in the o.p. is a bit strained to answer. However, I will make a small attempt to answer, if I may. God is not constrained by time nor space. However, we are. God *may* have done this with the foreknowledge that it would be useful for us as a guideline; He *may* have done this because there was physical/spiritual need for it to be that way; He *may* have done it that way simply because He wanted to stop and reflect each evening on what was good [complete] ... or perhaps all three ... or d. none of the above. (Ours is not to question why ...)

We know that He isn't subject to linear time, because it was "In the beginning ... ", the beginning of all time/space/matter ... remember that God is spirit ... and one day is as a thousand years (meaning that He is beyond time ... eternal).

Second guessing God isn't the point ... obedience is. The facinating thing is the understanding that God established not only the world, but also the ways to relate to it as well. The understanding of Light, opposed to sun worship, as FiveSolas mentioned ... also the beginning of a timeline for us to follow to create a calendar ... the earth rotating so we have period of work and period of rest ... etc. It is a great thing to take scripture and revisit it ... breaking it down to look beyond the history to what God is revealing to us for today.... not outdated information but valid, relevant things for us to do and follow. God provides us with everything we could possibly need ... and many of the things we didn't know we needed... and often don't deserve. He is truly amazing.

[bobazilla]

"God is not constrained by time nor space. However, we are. God *may* have done this with the foreknowledge that it would be useful for us as a guideline; He *may* have done this because there was physical/spiritual need for it to be that way; He *may* have done it that way simply because He wanted to stop and reflect each evening on what was good [complete] ... or perhaps all three ... or d. none of the above. (Ours is not to question why ...)"

God is not constrained by time and space, in other words he's fully cognizant of everything in every time, he HAS to know what's going to happen to his creation. What physical/spiritual need could such a being have for setting such an arbitrary interval?

I can see it now: God goes home after a busy day creating the universe. He kicks back, lights a pipe, and reflects on things. "Hmmm, I think tomorrow I'll make wildebeest and some insects that live on just one tree in the Amazon", and nods off in front of the fireplace.

God (by your terms) created this incredible amazing universe and gave us incredible amazing brains to observe and wonder about the universe. But we can't question he/she/it???? It's not ours to? What kind of setup is that? It's basically the Adam/Eve parable all over again. Here ya go....check out this lovely fruit, but don't touch it, no matter what the serpent says.

"We know that He isn't subject to linear time, because it was "In the beginning ... ", the beginning of all time/space/matter ... remember that God is spirit ... and one day is as a thousand years (meaning that He is beyond time ... eternal)."

If God somehow exists out of normal time then he must be able to see all of time. If so, he knew that mankind would fall, he knew he would have to send his son (I keeping this just to Christian mythology) to correct the first mistake. He knew that one day we'd be having this conversation. Such an idea means there is no free will, there is no happenstance, it was all preordained to doom a sizable portion of humanity to hell. I can and I will question the morality and "goodness" of such a being.

You can't have it both ways....either God knew what was going to happen, thus dooming humanity to torment, or he doesn't know and he lied to humanity.

"Second guessing God isn't the point ... obedience is. The facinating thing is the understanding that God established not only the world, but also the ways to relate to it as well. The understanding of Light, opposed to sun worship, as FiveSolas mentioned ... also the beginning of a timeline for us to follow to create a calendar ... the earth rotating so we have period of work and period of rest ... etc. It is a great thing to take scripture and revisit it ... breaking it down to look beyond the history to what God is revealing to us for today.... not outdated information but valid, relevant things for us to do and follow. God provides us with everything we could possibly need ... and many of the things we didn't know we needed... and often don't deserve. He is truly amazing."

So god sets the rules, god made it impossible for most people (his crowning acheievement!) to join him in everlasting life, and has to kill his own son to make things right. To receive the proper encoded message I have to read and understand one 2000+ year old document and it'll just come to me? If god really cared about his creation, he wouldn't have created the universe I live in. Why fool such a huge proportion of his creation!!! Such a being deserves neither obedience or respect.

Bobazilla

P.S. I still don't understand why Adam & Eve need a 6-day work week! I got lots of *may*s, but no answers.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yesterday @ 04:10 PM post located here
bobazilla:

I'm still wondering about why God would set a week of 6 days of work and one day off as a "model" for mankind to live by, when Adam & Eve wouldn't need that model until after the fall.

The best answer to this is the fact it just was. That God created the world in 6 days, U2's Bono seems to think it was 7, and that he rested is not an indication of weakness nor inability to do all in a single moment, but rather it may be indicative of the care in which he sought to do it.

I feel such questioning isn't really worth dealing with from a perspective of faliability. It certainly opens itself up to midrash, but to be blunt, the answer in the end is, "Its how He wanted to do it."

(*psst* The people who wrote it may not have had the concept of a god that could work such miracles instanteously either)

[Warcraft3]

bobazilla:

"God (by your terms) created this incredible amazing universe and gave us incredible amazing brains to observe and wonder about the universe. But we can't question he/she/it???? It's not ours to? What kind of setup is that? It's basically the Adam/Eve parable all over again. Here ya go....check out this lovely fruit, but don't touch it, no matter what the serpent says."

There is nothing wrong with asking the question, depending on the purpose of asking. If you are questioning God in an effort to truly understand Him more, then its fine to question. If you are questioning God because you have doubt or confusion about something and you would like some assurance, then that also is a situation where questioning is fine. Only when you question God in a confrontational or prideful/selfish manner does the questioning become wrong. Basically its the motive and attitude behind the questioning that determines whether its "good" or "bad".

:rockon:

[Warcraft3]

bobazilla:

"The problem with this is Adam & Eve had no need of a 6 day work week. They were in an earthly paradise that God created just for them. They weren't toiling or suffering (and were thus resting 7 days a week). It wasn't until after the fall that a 6-day work week was required."

From an OEC viewpoint Adam and Eve did indeed experience toil and suffereing in the garden, although in a somewhat limited fashion. We believe that, although they were in a protected environment which was already prepared for them, they did have to work to keep the garden a garden. I seem to remember God telling Eve that He would greatly "increase" her suffering (after the fall), not "introduce" her suffering. So our viewpoint is yes they did work and suffer in the Garden.

[Pilgrim]

Framework Hypothesis anyone?