? for all, atheists, agnostics, theists, others

[learning]

How would you solve the Middle East situation of Israel and the Palestinians?
This is not a popcorn watching question. I would like to know your solutions for real.

I will give you one example that I think may work, and is working. It is from a book 'Like Water in a Dry Land' by a sixtyish lady (Bettina Selby, google search will show you book) who biked through the lands of Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. She spoke of meeting a young Israeli, Christian Palestinian from Bethlehem. He had been a rebel when young, threw those gasoline pop bottles, spent time in prison where he said he was tortured, but now wishes to follow the way of forgiveness. He was with a group of people in Bethlehem, for some talks, and in the discussion with an Israeli soldier, the soldier said that he had a right to be there, as Jewish people were not accepted in the rest of the world, and this was their homeland. The Christian Palestinian said that he may have been Jewish at one time, as most of the Christians of Palestine were originally, so did he not have a right to be there too. To this the Israeli Jewish soldier hung his head and looked as if he was thinking about this. The author said that she found that this Christian Palestinian was hope for the situation in the Middle East, 'like water in a dry land.'

add on:
I just realized this might seem more suitable for the Political science board, but I'ld like to see what the different beliefs would bring to the table.

[DivineOb]

The only reason Israel even exists is because of Christians trying to impose their worldview and 'spiritual view.' Since it is clear that Israel has no interest in treating other people even as well as you might treat a dog, it is obvious that immediately withdrawing all support until they can improve their human rights record is an immediate requirement. Personally, I think we should just withdraw and let they duke it out however they want... Israel wants to use ruthless tactics, so let them, but not with our help...

[LGM]

How would you solve the Middle East situation of Israel and the Palestinians?
This is not a popcorn watching question. I would like to know your solutions for real.

Seems like the answer is right in the Bible...

Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
(1 Sam 15:1-3 NIV)

LGM
...Sharon, much like Saul, seems to be making the mistake of only killing some of them...this will only make the LORD, and those Palestinians left, more upset...

[Calvinist4Him]

How would you solve the Middle East situation of Israel and the Palestinians?

I wish I could solve the Middle East situation, and I wish I had THE solution, but I can't and don't. I believe there may come a time of brief peace, but I do not think there will be any lasting peace over there until the Prince of Peace returns.

The primary problem I see, is that there seems to be no give and take. It's a one way street, and although I may be accused of being bias, it seems to me that the Palestinians (as a nation) are not willing to come to a compromise. I believe this has alot to do with the leadership in Palestine.

I think both countries have become quick to take "revenge" when something happens. It's a really difficult situation, neither country can allow the other to stomp the other out, and I truly believe that Palestine will not be satisfied with nothing less than the annexation of Israel as a legitimate nation.

I honestly think that Israel is doing what they have to do, which is use the only thing the Palestinians seem to listen to...military force.

*taking cover waiting for the disagreements and accusations in opposition to my views*

[Calvinist4Him]

LakeGeorgeMan, if I'm not mistaken the Israel/Palastine conflict can be traced back to Gen 21 Isaac and Ishmael the two sons of Abraham.

[learning]

I guess this is another solution that comes to my mind.
Zechariah 14:3-9
"then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day, without daytime or nightime, a day known to the Lord. When evening comes, there will be light.
On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.
The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name."

[LGM]

LakeGeorgeMan, if I'm not mistaken the Israel/Palastine conflict can be traced back to Gen 21 Isaac and Ishmael the two sons of Abraham.

Seems it could probably be traced back to the tribal warfare our species, and no doubt our ancestral hominid species, and many other territorial social mammals use to resolve disputes like this...

LGM
...In the wild, you typically don't see Alpha wolves as fat as Sharon or Arafat tho...

[LGM]

I guess this is another solution that comes to my mind.

...On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.
The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name."

Well garsh learning, I guess all we have to do is kick back and wait for that day...or until all the Isrealis and Palestinians convert to Christainity and see the light...

LGM
...I wonder which one will come first?...

[learning]

Well golly LGM, I don't know! (I know you don't believe any of this, but I don't see you supply any solutions either)

I suspect 'that day' will come first.
I haven't much faith in mankind. Which is why my hope is in 'that day'.

[BeHereNow]

Perhaps we could withdraw support from all Middle Eastern countries, tell them to take their oil and shove it, drill from Alaska and Texas, and let the Israelis and Palestinians, as well as all the other lunies, fight to the death. THEN, once they've established a clear, concise victor and one nation rules the region, America can stage a coup, infiltrate the new government, and have puppet-master control over a sovereign entity.

Or something like that.

[Seasanctuary]

I have two answers:

1) I haven't a clue and I'm GLAD it's not up to me.

2) Nothing like a warm blanket of radiation to keep the entire Holy Land void of religious squabbles.

[learning]

Actually, many of the people in Israel (of all faiths) want to live in peace, and the fact that an Israeli Jewish soldier and a Christian Palestinian want to sit down and talk and listen to each other is hope. So long as they are willing to listen to each other, I guess there is hope. So long as they are willing to forgive, so their children have a future, there is hope.

[shunyadragon]

How would you solve the Middle East situation of Israel and the Palestinians?
This is not a popcorn watching question. I would like to know your solutions for real.

I will give you one example that I think may work, and is working. It is from a book 'Like Water in a Dry Land' by a sixtyish lady (Bettina Selby, google search will show you book) who biked through the lands of Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. She spoke of meeting a young Israeli, Christian Palestinian from Bethlehem. He had been a rebel when young, threw those gasoline pop bottles, spent time in prison where he said he was tortured, but now wishes to follow the way of forgiveness. He was with a group of people in Bethlehem, for some talks, and in the discussion with an Israeli soldier, the soldier said that he had a right to be there, as Jewish people were not accepted in the rest of the world, and this was their homeland. The Christian Palestinian said that he may have been Jewish at one time, as most of the Christians of Palestine were originally, so did he not have a right to be there too. To this the Israeli Jewish soldier hung his head and looked as if he was thinking about this. The author said that she found that this Christian Palestinian was hope for the situation in the Middle East, 'like water in a dry land.'

add on:
I just realized this might seem more suitable for the Political science board, but I'ld like to see what the different beliefs would bring to the table.

I also did what this lady did. I biked around and used other methods to travel and talk to people, because there was too much conflict going on when I was there to go by bike. One difference is I traveled from Ireland to the Holy Lands to India and then to China. I have talked to Jews, Christians, Moslems, Zorastrians, Buddhists, Taoists, and many others. Part of the problem is that it is a world problem.

The problem with Bettina Selby's view is that each religion sees their belief as the solution to the problem. Historically the exclusive nature of each belief as superior to the others is the cause of and contributed to course of many wars.

The Baha'i Faith is the only religion that has not taken sides in the history of the conflicts. The world center for the Baha'i Faith is on Mount Carmel. They have a history of simply extending the message of unity and peace every since they first came before the turn of the century. They helped build schools and distributed food in times of suffering.

'We have meet the enemy and they are us.' - Pogo

[LGM]

Part of the problem is that it is a world problem.

Agreed. Perhaps it could be viewed more broadly as a biological problem?

The problem with Bettina Selby's view is that each religion sees their belief as the solution to the problem. Historically the exclusive nature of each belief as superior to the others is the cause of and contributed to course of many wars.

Well said. It is the scurge of fundamentalist monotheism, fascism, communism, and many other authoritarian tribalistic beliefs.

The Baha'i Faith is the only religion that has not taken sides in the history of the conflicts.

I have found that when someone starts shooting or bombing you, almost all people, of any, or no religious faith, "take sides". Perhaps you are that rare exception. Perhaps we should put your faith "in charge" for awhile and see how you do...

The world center for the Baha'i Faith is on Mount Carmel. They have a history of simply extending the message of unity and peace every since they first came before the turn of the century. They helped build schools and distributed food in times of suffering.

Yes. Sounds like the Persian version of the Unification church. Is it possible for us to extend the message of unity and peace without having to claim our religion's founder and prophet was directed to do this by a god?

Have you examined pantheism or humanism or unitarianism? I'd be interested in your thoughts on how you think they compare to your religion?

LGM
...I personally don't take sides in conflicts until I can tell who's winning...

[DivineOb]

One thing I forgot to add which I just remembered.. I read this in a magazine a while ago, which is, unfortunately, now defunct. But they presented a quite compelling evidence that Israel was secretly (or not so secretly) kidnapping palestinians for the purposes of lifelong torture, and even going so far as to breed *further* palestinians so that those children could be tortured.

It's a terrible thing I admit, but I read it in a now defunct magazine, so it must be true.