Malaysian Flight Down in Ukraine

[TimelessTheist]

But Obama told us that the "world is more stable" since he assumed office

The world's about as stable as Barry's mental state, which explains a lot.

[robrecht]

Wars and rumors of wars. That's about the safest propehcy there is.

[TimelessTheist]

Yeah, if the people in Gaza were smart, they'd run Hamas out of town on a rail. How in the WORLD can Hamas think they can lob missiles into Israel and NOT have consequences.

But, yeah, I was simply pointing out what an unstable world we have become.

Don't forget this lovely piece of media, brought to you by good ol' Hamas.

[Cow Poke]

Wars and rumors of wars. That's about the safest propehcy there is.

I'm callin you out!

[robrecht]

I'm callin you out!

Good luck, but I don't put out for just anyone.

[Cow Poke]

Good luck, but I don't put out for just anyone.

I changed my mind.

[seanD]

Wars and rumors of wars. That's about the safest propehcy there is.

Depends on the definition of "wars." Regional conflicts that somehow involve the US one way or the other, yes. Wars and threats of wars that involve lots of major countries with other countries at once, no.

[robrecht]

I changed my mind.

Not even for an honorary Southern Baptist?

[DesertBerean]

Here's a quick look at past incidents involving civilian flights. I had thought there was one involving claims by Iran that they had confused a civilian flight with a much smaller fighter jet but apparently that was the Korean Flight 007. Circumstances are very different from I recall but it's been a long time.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukr...t-down-n158491

[Juvenal]

BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28378388

NYTimes:

http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...sh-in-ukraine/

[KingsGambit]

An IP address from the Russian government was seen editing the Wikipedia article on the incident, blaming Ukraine:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ight-MH17.html

(Seriously, if you just sign up for an account, nobody sees your IP address. This was a boneheaded move on the part of whoever did it.)

[DesertBerean]

Wait...the IP belonged to the Russian GOVERNMENT? Wow...

[seanD]

Interesting article...

The New Straits Times article began, “Intelligence analysts in the United States have already concluded that Malaysia flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a jet that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.”

It cited “experts who had said that the photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes—the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with ‘flechettes,’ and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.”

The New Straits Times cited several sources to substantiate its position. One was testimony by a Canadian-Ukrainian monitor for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Michael Bociurkiw—one of the first investigators to arrive at the crash site. Speaking to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on July 29, Bociurkiw said: “There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire.”

Another source the paper cited was an article, “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts,” by former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry, who now writes for the ConsortiumNews.com web site. Given the lack of any evidence supporting US charges that pro-Russian forces shot MH17 down with a Buk anti-aircraft missile, Parry said, “some US intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault, and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings.”

Parry indicated that sections of the US intelligence apparatus have concluded that US secretary of state John Kerry’s claims that pro-Russian forces shot down the plane are lies.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/201.../mala-a09.html

What stood out to me the most was this...

Kiev regime officials are continuing to stonewall the investigation, refusing Malaysian requests for information about MH17, such as the record of communications between the doomed plane and air traffic controllers in Kiev.

I would think that if Russian elements had seized the black boxes, this would be heralded nonstop in the western MSM as this would be very incriminating against Russia, as well as the Ukrainian government demanding that the black boxes be turned over to proper authorities. The fact that this critical info is missing and there is no mention of this by the west seems to incriminate Ukraine.

[Darth Executor]

Interesting article...

Stupid article.

Given the lack of any evidence supporting US charges that pro-Russian forces shot MH17 down with a Buk anti-aircraft missile

Sure, other than admitting it was them from the start until they found out it wasn't actually a military plane and Moscow told them to shut their trap, there's no evidence.

Kiev regime officials are continuing to stonewall the investigation, refusing Malaysian requests for information about MH17, such as the record of communications between the doomed plane and air traffic controllers in Kiev.

How is this stonewalling the investigation (assuming it's even true) when Malaysians aren't the ones conducting it.

[seanD]

How is this stonewalling the investigation (assuming it's even true) when Malaysians aren't the ones conducting it.

Pro-Russian rebels had stated they would turn over these items to Malaysian authorities

So, assuming the wsws article is correct, I'm not sure how Kiev got possession of the items unless Ukraine did in fact seize the items beforehand. If they didn't seize the items, as the Ukrainian Ambassador seems to claim, then where they're located remains the question.