Originally posted by Teallaura
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
General Theistics 101 Guidelines
This area is open for nontheists and theists to interact on issues of theism and faith in a civilized manner. We ask that nontheist participation respect the theistic views of others and not seek to undermine theism in general, or advocate for nontheism. Such posts are more suited for and allowable in Apologetics 301 with very little restriction.
The moderators of this area are given great discretion to determine if a particular thread or comment would more appropriately belong in another forum area.
Forum Rules: Here
The moderators of this area are given great discretion to determine if a particular thread or comment would more appropriately belong in another forum area.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
What's the Deal with Matthew's Genealogy?
Collapse
X
-
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
-
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThe matrilineal line wouldn't count; it's a patriarchal society.
Maybe I should just read it again...."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostI had wondered about that - I knew it was a translation from Hebrew so I was wondering about it. Is it a compromised translation, as this thesis would seem to imply (the author made no such direct statement, FYI) or if there's some other reason for the variance the author seems to see?אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostUm, wouldn't Aaron be coming in by the matrilineal line? Or did I misunderstand him?אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostI didnt read the whole thing--did I miss anything major? I only noted mostly minor spelling variations between the Hebrew and the LXX; Salathiel in the LXX is presumably based on a later correction meant to harmonize with the other books of the Hebrew. Matthew clearly cites the LXX elsewhere so this is not controversial.
Not sure anything major - the Uzziah thing would be the only one.
Originally posted by RobThere are a couple of Levis in Luke’s genealogy and maybe a few other typically priestly names, so some do speculate about some Levite marriages among Jesus' ancestors, and, of course, Zechariah in Luke’s gospel is a priest."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostSo Matthew had to fudge things a little bit to make things work. Leave off a few generations to make the middle group consist of 14 and double count the Babylonian deportation generation to make the third group equal 14 generations. I think this is probably the best explanation.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by tabibito View PostIt's a lot easier to believe than the idea Matthew couldn't count.
(I am currently translating this manuscript. It is fascinating. Already in the first chapter of Matthew alone, it diverges from all the Greek mauscripts in about 20 places. For example, it begins "These [are] the ancestors" instead of (as in both the Greek and Aramaic) "The book of the ancestors." If you'd like to read more, you can view my on-going translation here.)
Comment
-
-
I find it interesting that Jews would be motivated to translate the gospel into Hebrew. I would not be surprised if such translations would tend to translate the text in the least favorable light possible. Be that as it may, if this is a translation from the Greek, it can hardly be used to establish a putative Hebrew original. It would be nice to have confirmation from a reputable source (i.o.w., not wiki) of the manuscript's provenance.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
-
The names of the kings God omitted being named in Christ's lineage.
In Matthew 1:8, ". . . Joram begat Ozias; " three evil kings and a wicked queen are omitted. Ahaziah (2 Kings 8:26) is advised by his evil mother who was the daughter of Jezebel. After he was killed, she ruled as queen (2 Chronicles 22:10-12). One grand son which she was not able to kill, Joash (2 Kings 11:12, 21) became the next king. He in turn follows idolatry [of his grandmother] and in turn He murders the high priest (2 Chronicles 24:17-22) who was the son of the high priest who protected him from his grandmother. And after he is killed (2 Chronicles 24:23-27), his son Amaziah becomes king. And he killed those who killed his father, (2 Kings 14:1-21; 2 Chronicles 25) and allowed the idolatry in Judah. All three kings were omitted because of the sin of idolatry. God's judgement is against sin of idolatry for the third and fourth generations of those who hate Him (Exodus 20:5).
And the fourth king omitted in Matthew 1:11, ". . . Josias begat Jechonias . . ." one king is omitted being appointed by the king of Egypt (2 Kings 24;34).Last edited by 37818; 09-28-2014, 02:18 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by bibletranslator View Post(I am currently translating this manuscript. It is fascinating. Already in the first chapter of Matthew alone, it diverges from all the Greek mauscripts in about 20 places. For example, it begins "These [are] the ancestors" instead of (as in both the Greek and Aramaic) "The book of the ancestors." If you'd like to read more, you can view my on-going translation here.)Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI find it interesting that Jews would be motivated to translate the gospel into Hebrew. I would not be surprised if such translations would tend to translate the text in the least favorable light possible. Be that as it may, if this is a translation from the Greek, it can hardly be used to establish a putative Hebrew original. It would be nice to have confirmation from a reputable source (i.o.w., not wiki) of the manuscript's provenance.
If I recall correctly, he does not defend the view that Matthew Greek is a translation of Matthew Hebrew, but rather both would have been two essentially parallel versions. One would have been used by the other as a type of literary model, and he may want to believe that Matthew Hebrew is older, but he dose not defend that view because it is untenable and he does not contest the consensus that Matthew Greek primarily used Mark's Greek text.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Kinda funny I was thinking about 42 as time, times, and half a time like in Daniel and Revelation, which if Abraham was born 2018 BC and Jesus born 4 BC, it would be 2014 years between their births. Just trivia...
Comment
-
<still thinks of 42 as the Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything...>
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Esther, 11-23-2023, 10:29 AM
|
184 responses
834 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 05-09-2024, 07:07 AM |
Comment