Atheism: The Death Of Hope.

[Sir]

And with out the supernatural what is left? Hopelessness and eternal death. Motivations may vary, but the end is the same.

I believe that you believe that. I just don't see how the it is logical to state that the continuum of human experience is either 'supernaturalism' or 'hopelessness.' There must be some mitigation between those options, no?

I suppose if you are a committed monotheist, then one is either saved (which ratifies supernaturalist ideologies) or damned (which justifies the use of the concept of 'hopelessness'). But if you don't start from a religious presupposition, then there are more than simply those two options.

I think that is why I don't personally believe that atheism is directly equivalent to hopelessness.

On another note, if the prophesies of, say, the Christian monotheistic religion are true, then the conclusions to the human and cosmic experience are already revealed. Given that, what is the point of hope? Seems rather a hopeless situation to know the outcome of the future, doesn't it? Why hope for what you know will come to pass? Simply pass the time.

[seer]

This scientist claims that the childish human mind appears to be receptive to ‘religious’ beliefs:
http://downloads.sms.cam.ac.uk/653021/653025.m4v
Some comment here:
http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/...in-barret.html
See link to Faraday Institute for further information.

FF, I know its hard to be so different from the majority of your fellow men, so you try and rationalize. We can only hope that someday science will be able to cure this genetic disorder of atheism - then you could be normal, like the rest of us.

[seer]

I believe that you believe that. I just don't see how the it is logical to state that the continuum of human experience is either 'supernaturalism' or 'hopelessness.' There must be some mitigation between those options, no?

No. Either there is the possibility of life after death or there is not. One position offers hope, the other does not.

On another note, if the prophesies of, say, the Christian monotheistic religion are true, then the conclusions to the human and cosmic experience are already revealed. Given that, what is the point of hope? Seems rather a hopeless situation to know the outcome of the future, doesn't it? Why hope for what you know will come to pass? Simply pass the time.

No it doesn't. There are two categories of people, those who are saved and those who are not. Hope depends on which category you put yourself in.

[seer]

So why did you say "No, it kills hope in every sense. Forever." ?

Atheism patently does not kill hope in every sense, as you are now obliged to admit.

Stop being obtuse Pixie, I have been speaking of the ultimate fate of men, and mankind. And nothing else. That is the context and you know it.

But I would still love that child. I would not condemn him to hell (or annihilation) for that.

But you can not have a relationship, you can not be, in any real sense, connected. God simply lets the man have his way.

Do you believe in heaven? If so God created a place where people can love him, so presumably have free will, and it works without the threat of hell (or oblivion).

Again Pixie it is not a threat, it is a warning. If you do A, B will happen, if you do C, D will happen. This is how you find life, and this is how you find death. I taught my son to look both ways before crossing the street or certain consequences will follow- that is not a threat, but a warning.

Do you think there will be some suffering, then annihilation?

Yes, though I think a Hitler will suffer much more than a Joe six pack that rejects Christ. Weeping and gnashing of teeth, the deep fires of pride and regret.

So there is the fear that Christianity brings; suffering in hell, and then annihilation. Atheism promises no pain once you die.

And no possible future for any man, or mankind.

[firstfloor]

FF, I know its hard to be so different from the majority of your fellow men, so you try and rationalize. We can only hope that someday science will be able to cure this genetic disorder of atheism - then you could be normal, like the rest of us.

Thank you Seer, your kind thoughts are much appreciated.

[seer]

Thank you Seer, your kind thoughts are much appreciated.

Yes FF, let's hope science can cure you of this horrible malady!

[firstfloor]

Yes FF, let's hope science can cure you of this horrible malady!

I do want to assure you that atheism has no ill effects. In fact, it is rather like being sober and clear minded by comparison with the muddled thinking that accompanies some religions in the sense that an atheist hero would be someone like the hyper-empirical Sherlock Holmes who, no doubt, had be accompanied you on your stroll in the woods would have solved the riddle of the floating fern leaf.

[The Pixie]

Stop being obtuse Pixie, I have been speaking of the ultimate fate of men, and mankind. And nothing else. That is the context and you know it.

I strongly suspected it, which is why I pulled you up on it.

Atheism is NOT the death of all hope, and rest assured I will pull you up on any claim otherwise.

But you can not have a relationship, you can not be, in any real sense, connected. God simply lets the man have his way.

Personally I think you can connect with individuals who do not love you. I really cannot image why you would think otherwise. And Gid is even more powerful than me.

Again Pixie it is not a threat, it is a warning. If you do A, B will happen, if you do C, D will happen. This is how you find life, and this is how you find death. I taught my son to look both ways before crossing the street or certain consequences will follow- that is not a threat, but a warning.

The difference is in who controls those consequences.

You could say to your child, if you do that again, I will smack you. That is a threat, because you control the smacking. If you do X, then I will cause Y to happen.

What you describe here is a warning. A road accident is beyond your control. If you do X, then I may be unable to prevent Y happening.

God set up hell, he controls it. Hell is a threat, not a warning.

Yes, though I think a Hitler will suffer much more than a Joe six pack that rejects Christ. Weeping and gnashing of teeth, the deep fires of pride and regret.

Okay.

And no possible future for any man, or mankind.

Swings and roundabouts.

[seer]

I do want to assure you that atheism has no ill effects. In fact, it is rather like being sober and clear minded by comparison with the muddled thinking that accompanies some religions in the sense that an atheist hero would be someone like the hyper-empirical Sherlock Holmes who, no doubt, had be accompanied you on your stroll in the woods would have solved the riddle of the floating fern leaf.

Well, as far as the floating fern, you all have the details - any input would be nice.

[firstfloor]

Well, as far as the floating fern, you all have the details - any input would be nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8-8WJxA-cI

[seer]

That would appear to be a very private message. Talking of miracles, here’s a little funny that might amuse you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8-8WJxA-cI

LOL, I love British comedy! Back in the day Sunday night was a big event for us - first Benny Hill, then Monty Python.

[firstfloor]

LOL, I love British comedy! Back in the day Sunday night was a big event for us - first Benny Hill, then Monty Python.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tABnznhzdIY

[seer]

Back to your OP: I think it is true that human minds tend to see agency in any unexpected event and this may well be the root of religious belief with also a sense of justice – the golden rule also requires that if I make an investment in a society by some action, my sense of justice demands a reciprocal action. These are not things that an atheist wishes to destroy. Instead, there is the realisation that God is not the end of the story and so atheism is, in a way, not a rejection of God but elevation above God. You cannot get to that position until you understand that it is not that God made us but we made God, just like we made all gods – Thor, Zeus and the rest. Your Christian God is the latest of a long line.

Or FF, men have always intuitively understood that "something/one" was out there because there actually is. Like Rudolph Otto's Numinous.

http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religio...ln101/Otto.htm

[firstfloor]

Or FF, men have always intuitively understood that "something/one" was out there because there actually is. Like Rudolph Otto's Numinous.

[seer]

Salvation comes when you stop kneeling down to pray.

Ok, I'll do it God's way, you do it your way... Good luck