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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]34493[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]34494[/ATTACH]

    Well Gillette did one thing right...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #47
      The best take on this whole thing has been a comment on a Babylon Bee article on facebook:

      "That Gillette ad was written by 3 feminists. It's like Trump writing an ad for Tampons. "Wall of protection, no leakage, fantastic coverage.""
      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

      Comment


      • #48
        WALSH: 3 Reasons Why Gillette's 'Toxic Masculinity' Ad Is Incredibly Stupid And Degrading

        The fine folks at Gillette recently decided to take a break from peddling overpriced razors and instead focus on insulting their entire customer base. Presumably taking the advice of a marketing agency staffed exclusively by pink-haired feminists, Gillette released an ad this week which encourages men to stop raping and bullying and doing all of the other things that men will inevitably do until their shaving cream tells them not to.

        The video, which has racked up an impressive 313 thousand dislikes on YouTube, opens with various scenes of men and boys doing various obnoxious and awful things. It is implied that we men have excused these behaviors by shrugging and muttering "boys will be boys." The ad makes this point very subtly, by showing a line of men saying "boys will be boys" in unison as they watch two other boys fight.

        But then! "Something finally changed," the narrator tells us. "There will be no going back," we are assured. What changed? The Me Too movement. This, according to Gillette, was the seminal moment when men realized that they aren't supposed to rape, assault, harass, or bully. We learned to "act the right way." Though, the narrator allows, "some already are." Then we are shown various examples of men doing really basic, human things, like encouraging their children and breaking up fights.

        Feminists love the ad and apparently cannot understand why so many men have reacted negatively to it. I thought I would help them out by offering a mansplaination:

        1) The Me Too movement didn't "change" anything for most of us. It is obviously insulting, not to mention absurd, to suggest that men, as a whole, experienced some sort of great awakening when Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and Kevin Spacey got in trouble. We already knew that it's wrong to rape. We were already well aware that harassment is not okay. There is not a single man on Earth who watched a news report about Weinstein, slapped his forehead, and said, "Oh! So we're not supposed to do that? Alright then! My mistake!" Even the men who do those things already knew they weren't supposed to do them. They do the things anyway because they are evil, and that's what evil people do.

        But the vast majority of men are not rapists or harassers and were, prior to this past year, already staunchly opposed to both activities. There was nothing epiphanic or revolutionary about Me Too for us. To insinuate that we learned that rape and assault are bad, or that we needed needed to learn such a lesson, is patronizing in the extreme.

        2) "Boys will be boys" is not a rationale for bad behavior. In my entire life I have never once heard anyone, ever, offer "boys will be boys" as an excuse for rape or bullying. I have never seen a bunch of men standing around watching a kid pummel another kid while they all nod in approval and say "boys will be boys" to one another, like programed automatons. Have the people at Gillette ever even met an actual human man before? Perhaps not. Maybe that's why they think we need a razor with 14 blades to shave in the morning, as if our beards are made from the steel bristles of a wire brush.

        In any case, "boys will be boys" does not generally function as an excuse. It is a cliche but, like many cliches, it contains great wisdom. Boys will indeed be boys, and should be boys, and should be allowed to be boys without their natural boy-ness being constantly suppressed. Boys are energetic, aggressive, creative, competitive. They need safe and accepting outlets for these impulses. Incidentally, rolling around and roughhousing is one such outlet. The ad shows an enlightened man swooping in to stop a couple of young boys from wrestling around in the grass, which is exactly the wrong approach. As long as it's all in good fun, and nobody is getting seriously hurt, and it is not a case of assault or actual bullying, then the fatherly instinct to step back and let the boys be boys is correct.

        There are only, in the end, two options. Either we let boys act like boys or we force them to act like girls. But the latter option makes as much sense as forcing girls to act like boys. You wouldn't demand that your daughter stop playing with dolls and go out and wrestle in the grass instead. Why should we demand the reverse of boys? That's the point of "boys will be boys," and God help the boys cursed with parents who don't understand this point.

        3) The ad says that "some men" act the right way. Can you in your wildest and most fevered dreams even imagine the reaction to an ad that spoke about women in these terms? Imagine an ad for Dove body wash that shows women doing stereotypically negative things like gossiping and nagging and shopping too much, and then the narrator comes on: "Sure, some women act the right way." Feminists would be rioting in the street. They'd storm Dove headquarters and stone the head of marketing to death with loofahs dipped in cement.

        But no such ad would or could ever exist. Women are not lectured and scolded this way. This sort of treatment is reserved for men. And men are tired of it. We've heard it enough. We're terrible; we're horrible; we've ruined the world. Okay, we get it. Thank you. Now shut up and sell your 14-bladed razors and leave us alone.

        https://www.dailywire.com/news/42190...-ad-matt-walsh

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        • #49
          The whole liberal schtick is extreme hypocrisy on steroids.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            The whole liberal schtick is extreme hypocrisy on steroids.
            I think you mean "extreme hypocrisy on estrogen." Need to stay away from that toxic masculinity.
            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

            Comment


            • #51
              I said this before and it is worth repeating. I grew up in a lower middle class, largely Catholic and largely Italian immigrant, neighborhood in the bad old 50s and 60s. And we boys were taught to NEVER lay a hand on a women, never even use foul language in front of a woman. Even trying to get to first base was a big no-no. Never mind rape or sexual harassment. We always held the door for a lady or carried her groceries. And there was a saying - the man is the head of the family, but the woman is the neck. All this from a bunch of backward religious neanderthals - go figure.
              Last edited by seer; 01-18-2019, 01:40 PM.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                I said this before and it is worth repeating. I grew up in a lower middle class, largely Catholic and largely Italian immigrant, neighborhood in the bad old 50s and 60s. And we boys were taught to NEVER lay a hand on a women, never even use foul language in front of a woman. Even trying to get to first base was a big no-no. Never mind rape or sexual harassment. We always held the door for a lady or carry her groceries. And there was a saying - the man is the head of the family, but the woman is the neck. All this from a bunch of backward religious neanderthals - go figure.
                yep, "Toxic Masculinity" is a feminist attempt to take bad behavior and shoehorn that into "masculinity" and then poison the well and call it toxic. But such bad behavior has never been part of being a man.

                If a female teacher sleeps with a teenage male student (statutory rape) should we call that "Toxic Femininity?" - Women would be up in arms if we did. Trying to associate evil behavior with Feminity.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  yep, "Toxic Masculinity" is a feminist attempt to take bad behavior and shoehorn that into "masculinity" and then poison the well and call it toxic. But such bad behavior has never been part of being a man.

                  If a female teacher sleeps with a teenage male student (statutory rape) should we call that "Toxic Femininity?" - Women would be up in arms if we did. Trying to associate evil behavior with Feminity.
                  I wonder if half the problem is that boys are not allowed to be boys, that maleness is often treated like a moral defect, with bad or no male role models. So they grow up know knowing how to act, then act out in inappropriate ways.

                  https://www.scarymommy.com/having-so...minism-for-me/
                  Last edited by seer; 01-18-2019, 02:04 PM.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    I said this before and it is worth repeating. I grew up in a lower middle class, largely Catholic and largely Italian immigrant, neighborhood in the bad old 50s and 60s. And we boys were taught to NEVER lay a hand on a women, never even use foul language in front of a woman. Even trying to get to first base was a big no-no. Never mind rape or sexual harassment. We always held the door for a lady or carried her groceries. And there was a saying - the man is the head of the family, but the woman is the neck. All this from a bunch of backward religious neanderthals - go figure.
                    Yes, and it wasn't because girls were weak or stupid - it was because it was the right thing to do.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Yes, and it wasn't because girls were weak or stupid - it was because it was the right thing to do.
                      Right...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #56


                        Does an ellipsis change the meaning of the word right?
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #57

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post


                            Does an ellipsis change the meaning of the word right?
                            Just remember, if it's an ellipsis of the sun, don't stare straight at it.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              Great!

                              However, as such, many older conservatives would thus view you as having been brainwashed by the SJWs. Back in their day, men were real men (i.e. jerks).
                              But that is just the thing. My great grandfather, my grandfather, several of my friends taught me that.

                              They taught me that It was my duty and privilidge to use my skills to help others. That just because I may have long hair or whatever that did not define me. That providing for others is generous.

                              If anything jerks like that have been the villians in most every story I know of. Examples would include.
                              Biff Tannen
                              Gideon Graves
                              Naraku
                              Elder Toguro
                              Marlon Brando in the film A streetcar named desire.

                              I dont think every man is going to be built like Kenshiro. I dont expect them to be. What good is strength if you just bully people with it. I dont think every man is going to have a tom selek mustache. I do think though that men are not in and of just being male bad.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                If masculinity were truly toxic...
                                Nobody is saying masculinity in and of itself is toxic. That's silly. 'Toxic masculinity' refers to particular sub-categories of possible ideas about what it means to be 'Truly Manly' that have nasty side-effects or negative consequences.

                                I'm always amused at the level of willful misunderstandings among conservatives that try to misinterpret liberal ideas to imply liberals are against men, or against families, or against white people, etc. I'm glad I'm a white male from an intact family background, it's meant I've grown up with many advantages and privileges - as a liberal I simply try to be aware that not everyone else has had all the advantages I have had and try to have some empathy with regard to the differences in other people's life circumstance. Being a liberal has absolutely nothing to do with hating-on people like myself - I have never heard any liberals do so - and conservatives who misinterpret what liberals are saying as if it meant that are fooling themselves and others.

                                I'm also amused by the picture of a male soldier captioned 'keeping snowflakes safe'. I would suggest it's worth noting that most US military actions in recent years have been offensive not defensive and in practice have stirred up the middle east and inspired terrorism thus arguably made people in the US less safe not more (there was a study of suicide bombing motives that found ~95% of suicide bombings over a 30 year period were motivated by foreign soldiers on the soil of the person's own country... so sticking US soldiers in the Middle East is inherently problematic. Remember Bin Laden's own explanation for 9/11 was that the presence of a US military base in Saudi Arabia was the great insult that could not be tolerated). Also, as to the gender of the soldier: By all accounts Kurdish female soldiers have been giving a pretty good account of themselves versus ISIS. So both aspects of the picture - the masculinity and the keeping people safe - are highly questionable.
                                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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