Jewish law, halakhah, means "go" or "walk."

[tabibito]

In this we would appear to have a problem.

Jesus said Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Heb 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 9:1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary.

Now it needs to be asked whether, (Matthew 5:17) Christ did not succeed in what he had come to do. And whether, for some reason (Hebrews 8:13) the first covenant was not made obsolete.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.

The law could not make perfect those who approached, but Christ can do so. While the first law stood, the second and more perfect law could not be initiated. This is the explanation provided by the letter to the Hebrews.

Hebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you

Moses' blood of the covenant, that of calves and goats, has been replaced with Jesus' blood of the covenant, that of grapes. (wine = blood of grapes: Genesis 49:11, Deuteronomy 32:14) Where Moses' blood was sprinkled on the person, Jesus' blood is consumed by the person. There are fundamental differences in the rites associated with purification, and those differences are profound.

Your point regarding the final judgement day would seem to be the fulfilment of the second covenant. Even Heaven and Earth themselves pass away, to be replaced by a new Heaven and Earth.

[mitzi]

In this we would appear to have a problem.

Jesus said

Now it needs to be asked whether, (Matthew 5:17) Christ did not succeed in what he had come to do. And whether, for some reason (Hebrews 8:13) the first covenant was not made obsolete.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.

The law could not make perfect those who approached, but Christ can do so. While the first law stood, the second and more perfect law could not be initiated. This is the explanation provided by the letter to the Hebrews.



Moses' blood of the covenant, that of calves and goats, has been replaced with Jesus' blood of the covenant, that of grapes. (wine = blood of grapes: Genesis 49:11, Deuteronomy 32:14) Where Moses' blood was sprinkled on the person, Jesus' blood is consumed by the person. There are fundamental differences in the rites associated with purification, and those differences are profound.

Your point regarding the final judgement day would seem to be the fulfilment of the second covenant. Even Heaven and Earth themselves pass away, to be replaced by a new Heaven and Earth.

4Ezr 7:12-And so the entrances of this world were made narrow and sorrowful and toilsome; they are few and evil, full of dangers and involved in great hardships.4Ezr 7:13- But the entrances of the greater world are broad and safe, and really yield the fruit of immortality.4Ezr 7:14- Therefore unless the living pass through the difficult and vain experiences, they can never receive those things that have been reserved for them.

New Testament:
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

[tabibito]

No argument with that.

4 Ezra - Now reading it with interest.

[mitzi]

No argument with that.

4 Ezra - Now reading it with interest.

The best passage that I read was for the intercession of the sinner. Esdras (Ezra) presents a good case for the angel because he states the need to pray for the sinner in the same way Abraham did, as well as, Moses for the Israelite after the they sinned of the golden calf. Abraham, as stated, said if there be but 50 righteous will you not spare the city for their sake? The passages read: (as a comparison)

14 If then you will suddenly and quickly destroy what with so great labor was fashioned by your command, to what purpose was it made? 15 And now I will speak out: About all humankind you know best; but I will speak about your people, for whom I am grieved, 16 and about your inheritance, for whom I lament, and about Israel, for whom I am sad, and about the seed of Jacob, for whom I am troubled. 17 Therefore I will pray before you for myself and for them, for I see the failings of us who inhabit the earth; 18 and now also I have heard of the swiftness of the judgment that is to come. 19 Therefore hear my voice and understand my words, and I will speak before you." The beginning of the words of Ezra's prayer, before he was taken up. He said: 20 "O Lord, you who inhabit eternity, whose eyes are exalted and whose upper chambers are in the air, 21 whose throne is beyond measure and whose glory is beyond comprehension, before whom the hosts of angels stand trembling 22 and at whose command they are changed to wind and fire, whose word is sure and whose utterances are certain, whose command is strong and whose ordinance is terrible, 23 whose look dries up the depths and whose indignation makes the mountains melt away, and whose truth is established forever— 24 hear, O Lord, the prayer of your servant, and give ear to the petition of your creature; attend to my words. 25 For as long as I live I will speak, and as long as I have understanding I will answer. 26 O do not look on the sins of your people, but on those who serve you in truth. 27 Do not take note of the endeavors of those who act wickedly, but of the endeavors of those who have kept your covenants amid afflictions.


What did King Solomon say at the dedication?

36“When they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to a land far away or near; 37and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their captivity and say, ‘We have sinned, we have done wrong and acted wickedly’; 38and if they turn back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their captivity where they were taken, and pray toward the land you gave their ancestors, toward the city you have chosen and toward the temple I have built for your Name; 39then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their pleas, and uphold their cause. And forgive your people, who have sinned against you.


and, the Apostle Paul said (basically the same):

No One Is Righteous

9What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

11there is no one who understands;

there is no one who seeks God.

12All have turned away,

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good,

not even one.”

13“Their throats are open graves;

their tongues practice deceit.”

“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”

14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”

15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16ruin and misery mark their ways,

17and the way of peace they do not know.”

18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.


The law can't save but it can do and when you read 2 Timothy 3 - it basically has the same conviction as Esdras during the last days:


4 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

[tabibito]

The law can't save but it can do and when you read 2 Timothy 3 - it basically has the same conviction as Esdras during the last days:

If you're saying that the law had the potential to save, I would agree. However, being violated at any time and in any way, it has the power only to condemn.
Given that all men who are in the flesh do sin, the potential to save was never met in practice.

[mitzi]

If you're saying that the law had the potential to save, I would agree. However, being violated at any time and in any way, it has the power only to condemn.
Given that all men who are in the flesh do sin, the potential to save was never met in practice.

"When Moses prayed for the people, God instructed him to make a bronze serpent and put it on a pole so the people could be healed (Numbers 21:5-7).

God was teaching the people something about faith. It is totally illogical to think that looking at a bronze image could heal anyone from snakebite, but that is exactly what God told them to do. It took an act of faith in God's plan for anyone to be healed, and the serpent on the stick was a reminder of their sin which brought about their suffering. This serpent was symbolic of the serpents God used to chastise the people for their unbelief.

Once the people did get healed when they looked at the serpent, and the image was kept for many years. Many years later, when the Israelites were in the Promised Land, the serpent became an object of worship (2 Kings 18:4)."

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/bronze-s...#ixzz3AojWteRy

Now in the book of wisdom it states this:

Affliction struck them briefly, by way of warning, and they had a saving token to remind them of the commandment of your Law, 7 for whoever turned to it was saved, not by what he looked at, but by you, the Saviour of all.

8 And by such means you proved to our enemies that you are the one who delivers from every evil;Halakhah: Jewish Law

[mitzi]

If you're saying that the law had the potential to save, I would agree. However, being violated at any time and in any way, it has the power only to condemn.
Given that all men who are in the flesh do sin, the potential to save was never met in practice.

The Pharisees Investigate the Healing

[tabibito]

Again, and thinking back on the conversation, what you're saying is that the law "when/if anyone violates it" can not wash way or cover up sin?

That is my assessment of the situation, yes. "the law was deficient"
Heb 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

A number of passages make similar comments.

What question was Jesus answering? "Who sinned that this man was born blind?" "Neither he nor his parents sinned" (that he was born blind). This is an answer, not a statement, and it addresses the outcome from a particular hypothesised sin.

Yup - the uneducated man who had been born blind knew where Jesus was from, but the learned members of the Sanhedrin didn't. Kind of ironic, really. The same continues today, and perhaps more so. There is a lot of opposition to the idea (Hebrews 10:1) that Christ actually does make perfect those who approach.

[mitzi]

That is my assessment of the situation, yes. "the law was deficient"
Heb 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

A number of passages make similar comments.

What question was Jesus answering? "Who sinned that this man was born blind?" "Neither he nor his parents sinned" (that he was born blind). This is an answer, not a statement, and it addresses the outcome from a particular hypothesised sin.

Yup - the uneducated man who had been born blind knew where Jesus was from, but the learned members of the Sanhedrin didn't. Kind of ironic, really. The same continues today, and perhaps more so. There is a lot of opposition to the idea (Hebrews 10:1) that Christ actually does make perfect those who approach.

The comment from the apostles was about Jesus Healing a Man Born Blind but from what understanding? Can sin be carried over to the next generation - again, you and I both understand that the law (and as Moses said)

[mitzi]

What question was Jesus answering? "Who sinned that this man was born blind?" "Neither he nor his parents sinned" (that he was born blind). This is an answer, not a statement, and it addresses the outcome from a particular hypothesised sin.

Yup - the uneducated man who had been born blind knew where Jesus was from, but the learned members of the Sanhedrin didn't. Kind of ironic, really. The same continues today, and perhaps more so. There is a lot of opposition to the idea (Hebrews 10:1) that Christ actually does make perfect those who approach.

tzaraath. Miriam had to stay outside of the camp for a week due to the tzaraath. During this time, all of Israel waited for her.

**The noun form comes from the verb tzara (צָרַע) which means "to have a skin disease." The linguistic root of tzaraath may mean "smiting", in comparison with Arabic, in reference to a Talmudical explanation that it serves as a punishment for sin;[1] it is quite possible that tzaraath was a general term for certain types of skin disease, rather than a particular condition,[2] and the Talmud maintains a similar view, arguing that tzaraath referred generally to any disease that produces sores and eruptions on the skin.[3]

[tabibito]

What sin(s) were associated with blindness? Is there any information available?

With regard to tzara, I believe that the same term was used for stone or brick structures that were degenerating (salt damp, for example) - could be wrong though.

[mitzi]

What sin(s) were associated with blindness? Is there any information available?

With regard to tzara, I believe that the same term was used for stone or brick structures that were degenerating (salt damp, for example) - could be wrong though.

There must have been a sin that was associated with blindness, yes - or - the fact that the boy was blind from birth indicated a sin from the perspective that the parents were to be blamed. Another thought on the Matriarches where the Lord had closed their womb or they were barren, "And Sarai was barren; she did not have a child. (Genesis 11:29-30) and then, "And Sarai said to Avram: "Behold, God has prevented me from giving birth. Please come to my handmaid, perhaps I will be built up through her." (Genesis 16:2)



Was it after God changed her name that she was able to then conceived? Some see things as sins, however, as Jesus said, "so that the works of God might be displayed in him.…" - (or to display a miracle through that person - or Matriarch)

[mitzi]

What sin(s) were associated with blindness? Is there any information available?

With regard to tzara, I believe that the same term was used for stone or brick structures that were degenerating (salt damp, for example) - could be wrong though.

Blindness: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...3_0_03089.html

I looked up the word "ivver" blindness - and there are some very good articles about the subject but here's a small example: The word Oyr, "skin" is related to Ivver, "blind person" because in his diminished, fallen state, his body now took on a layer of skin. It became a veil rather than a reflector to reveal the divine in the universe.

The word "iver" is used as followed:

17.putting a stumbling-block in the way of the blind, that is to say, tempting another to sin (Lifnei iver);