Featured Ministry Article: Preaching the -Good- Bad News

[Dee Dee Warren]

I hate gravity!!!

It is an evil thing that causes many people to go splat on the ground. It is also very intolerant and rigid. Doesn't it know that we live in a pluralistic society in which some people believe they can fly? How can gravity be so hateful and bigoted towards those people? I refuse to believe in it.

[lordsnooty]

Wow. Someone should have informed Mary that hell doesn't exist. It might have spared her some upset.

It amazes me that you can worship God, even though you claim he will send decent people to hell. What kind of people are you? Seriously? If you're compliant in his crimes, what does that make you?

Paul

[LilPunkishOfTerror]

Today @ 01:34 PM post located here
lordsnooty:

Wow. Someone should have informed Mary that hell doesn't exist. It might have spared her some upset.

It amazes me that you can worship God, even though you claim he will send decent people to hell. What kind of people are you? Seriously? If you're compliant in his crimes, what does that make you?

Paul

Oh yeah, God sends decent people to hell, hey Paul where did you pick that one up from? Yeah like God bows to our understanding of decent!

Seriously, I'd love to know where you get this "decent" thing from, because it sounds like you've got a bee in your bonnet. We worship God because He is righteous. This definition also excludes any crimes - He doesn't commit crimes! What are you on about huh??!!

Guy

[Dee Dee Warren]

And of course Snooty's comments are a whole distraction from the point of the article to begin with.

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 08:10 AM post located here
Dee Dee Warren:

And of course Snooty's comments are a whole distraction from the point of the article to begin with.

Well, I honestly don't know about that... It seems to me that much of what he's saying does relate and respond to the article. Obviously, I believe his conclusions are entirely wrong, but in his defense, I do think he's addressing the article in a way.

[Dee Dee Warren]

As that author, you for sure would know, and I would not presume to argue with you on that point.

[Vorkosigan]

Vorkosigan, my friend, what is it that troubles you so much about our beliefs? Where do these ideals of hate come from?

These ideals of hate are built into a religion in which judgment plays such a powerful role, and which condemns all other forms of thought through all eternity.

You accuse Christians of such evil crimes because of the fools that have committed atrocities in the past, you blame us and our beliefs because of power thirsty criminals. Does this seem right to you?

Obviously it sems right to me, or I wouldn't do it!

Why do you judge us?

I do not "judge" you in the sense you mean. It is not judgment to reference history as well as sentiments contained in the OP, and then point out the consequences of such behaviors and beliefs, as others experience them.

We are merely telling you what we believe is true in hopes that you will come into the light as we did. Where do you see evil intentions in that? Please enlighten me.

I think I have already amply communicated why it is intolerant, hateful and evil to regard all other beliefs as only worthy of condemnation and eventual elimination. I do not think your personal intentions as such are evil. Rather, what you experience as a positive personal intention and "light" others experience as will-to-power and evil. The problems are inherent in the nature of missionary work, the attitude of Christianity toward other forms of thought, and in the structure of Christianity, especially right-wing Christianity, as an authority belief, and not in the personal attitudes of individual Christians, many of whom are quite laudable. Of course, many Communists too felt that they were doing a good thing for the world....

Vorkosigan

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 09:28 AM post located here
Dee Dee Warren:

As that author, you for sure would know, and I would not presume to argue with you on that point.

Just because he's completely wrong doesn't mean he can't contribute to the discussion. LOL He is discussing the inherent values regarding telling others about what we believe to be the "good news." (And the "bad news," for that matter.) Seems to me that's on topic.

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 09:29 AM post located here
Vorkosigan:
I think I have already amply communicated why it is intolerant, hateful and evil to regard all other beliefs as only worthy of condemnation and eventual elimination. I do not think your personal intentions as such are evil. Rather, what you experience as a positive personal intention and "light" others experience as will-to-power and evil. The problems are inherent in the nature of missionary work, the attitude of Christianity toward other forms of thought, and in the structure of Christianity, especially right-wing Christianity, as an authority belief, and not in the personal attitudes of individual Christians, many of whom are quite laudable. Of course, many Communists too felt that they were doing a good thing for the world....

Vorkosigan

But Vork, you are beginning with your conclusion and working backward. Completely illogical. Your presuppositions are showing. Not to mention you're applying a different standard to yourself regarding judgement, which makes you hypocritical.

IF what we speak is the truth, then we are not being judgemental in communicating what is simply the truth. Here is an analogy that I frequently use in my ministry's tent. It's not an analogy concerning salvation, but rather it concerns whether a person is judgemental for communicating a truth... based on their own personal wisdom or judgement, or otherwise.

Your father is sick. You take him to the hospital. They determine that he needs to have surgery and may not live. You go home. Your mother asks how your father is. You tell her, "He needs surgery, and even then, he might not live."

Is your mother going to look at you and say, "Who the heck do you think you are? You're not a doctor. You think you can diagnose him and know that he needs surgery? What arrogance!"

Of course not! That would be absurd! By whose authority are you telling your mother these things? Not your own, and not that of some other person off the street. No, you were told by someone in authority.

And we believe the same is true in our case. If we are mistaken, then we are mistaken. But believe me, I don't enjoy telling anyone "the bad news." If it were up to my personal preferences and limited human wisdom, I would NOT have designed a religion like Christianity, believe me. Christianity goes against my presuppositions just as it goes against yours, too. Much of it isn't exactly what I would have designed it to be if I'd been in charge of the truth. But even back when I was a practicing witch, the evidence persuaded me otherwise. And if a witch can be persuaded by the overwhelming evidence for the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ ... then surely it is at least worth investigating.

[lordsnooty]

Today @ 01:45 PM post located here
ghbearman:
Oh yeah, God sends decent people to hell, hey Paul where did you pick that one up from? Yeah like God bows to our understanding of decent!

So you don't mind that people you like - people that are kind and honest, and people that do not conform to your understanding of evil in any way - are supposedly being sent into a pit of fire to be tortured for all of eternity because they were unable to accept your interpretation of scripture?

You think that's good, because God says so?

Seriously, I'd love to know where you get this "decent" thing from, because it sounds like you've got a bee in your bonnet. We worship God because He is righteous.

Eternal torture can never be seen as righteous. If we assume that your myths are true, and God enforces this punishment on non believers - or people of any kind - then he is a monster and a tyrant, and in worshipping him you are no better than Nazi officers at concentration camps.

The belief that 'evil is righteous' is disturbing and possibly indicative of mental derrangement.

Paul

[$cirisme]

There's a difference between torment and torture.

I believe the flames are symbolic of the separation from Christ.

[yxboom]

It is not literal fire

[lordsnooty]

Today @ 04:47 PM post located here
RightIdea:
But believe me, I don't enjoy telling anyone "the bad news." If it were up to my personal preferences and limited human wisdom, I would NOT have designed a religion like Christianity, believe me. Christianity goes against my presuppositions just as it goes against yours, too. Much of it isn't exactly what I would have designed it to be if I'd been in charge of the truth.

That's quite an admission. I find myself in the peculiar position of respecting something Right Idea has said... must.. disrespect....gnn!

But even back when I was a practicing witch, the evidence persuaded me otherwise. And if a witch can be persuaded by the overwhelming evidence for the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ ... then surely it is at least worth investigating.

Well, being a witch gives you leanings towards the supernatural to begin with. Modern day witchcraft is very much influenced by Christianity anyway, even if it's not immediately obvious. The 'problem' with atheists is that they cannot accept the supernatural when there is a better explanation to be had - and science has, thus far, consistently found better explanations for all events previously thought to be supernatural.

But if God loves us, and wants to give us the remotest shred of evidence that the bible is true - I'm listening.

Paul

[lordsnooty]

Today @ 06:57 PM post located here
yxboom:

It is not literal fire

Oh, right. That's one of those things where you choose to believe that the Bible isn't being literal, for some reason?

I've spoken to many, many Christians that believe it is literal.

What is the Christian definition of 'torment' then?

Paul

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 12:11 PM post located here
lordsnooty:



Oh, right. That's one of those things where you choose to believe that the Bible isn't being literal, for some reason?

I've spoken to many, many Christians that believe it is literal.

What is the Christian definition of 'torment' then?

Paul

NOW you're getting off topic, shipmate. LOL And as the creator of this "thread," I would ask that you make your own thread to discuss that.