Featured Ministry Article: Preaching the -Good- Bad News

[AVmetro]

My friend, I guarantee you that not only have I read it from cover to cover, but I am sure that I have read and understood it at least as well as you, if not better. In fact, I read sections of it almost every day. Along with the relevant scholarship.

2Ti 3:7 - "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

And I can assure you that others have read it from cover to cover and have understood it better than you. Every day. Along with the relevant scholarship. And these people are Christians today. Many having been converted from atheism.

I hate gravity!!!

It is an evil thing that causes many people to go splat on the ground. It is also very intolerant and rigid. Doesn't it know that we live in a pluralistic society in which some people believe they can fly? How can gravity be so hateful and bigoted towards those people? I refuse to believe in it.

Good point.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Thank you AV!!

[Vorkosigan]

double

[Vorkosigan]

2Ti 3:7 - "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

There's something extremely apropo about using an example from a letter forged in Paul's name.

Vorkosigan

[Vorkosigan]

IF what we speak is the truth, then we are not being judgemental in communicating what is simply the truth.

Yes, but that has to be demonstrated, not claimed. If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs, if we had some eggs.

Of course not! That would be absurd! By whose authority are you telling your mother these things? Not your own, and not that of some other person off the street. No, you were told by someone in authority.

Quite true...so far....

And we believe the same is true in our case.

But here's where you go wrong. You're confusing two different senses of the word "authority." The "authority" of the doctor lies in her expertise. Additionally, the doctor's "authority" is based on empirically verifiable evidence that anyone, with sufficient preparation, can master and verify for themselves.

The authority of the Bible, however, is simply a claim assumed by its followers, and has no empirical testability whatsoever. The two kinds of authority could not be more different. One is vested in five hundred years of empirical research, the other in simple rhetorical aggrandizement: "I'm right! Listen to me!"

If we are mistaken, then we are mistaken. But believe me, I don't enjoy telling anyone "the bad news.

I've been listening to the bad news for a lifetime, and my own perception is that many enjoy giving this bad news. Bruce Bawer discussed this problem at length in Stealing Jesus, about the fundamentalist insistence on hell and punishment rather than love, and the relish with which so many preach this. One only needs to examine the inhuman Left Behind series, where believers are invited to revel in death on a global scale, to see this dynamic at work.

" If it were up to my personal preferences and limited human wisdom, I would NOT have designed a religion like Christianity, believe me. Christianity goes against my presuppositions just as it goes against yours, too. Much of it isn't exactly what I would have designed it to be if I'd been in charge of the truth. But even back when I was a practicing witch, the evidence persuaded me otherwise. And if a witch can be persuaded by the overwhelming evidence for the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ ... then surely it is at least worth investigating.

<shrug> I hear the same stuff all the time from my Ba'hai, Buddhist or Hindu friends, or my friends who follow various gurus like Sai Baba. "Once I heard the message of X, nothing was ever the same for me" which demonstrates that transformative experiences are....well....transformative.

Vorkosigan

[djdavo]

interesting article,but you're preaching to the converted here :)


Vorkosigan: man, what chistian in your life stepped on your head? it had to be a parent, right? i've had it happen,too: i've been horribly betrayed by christians.
the one thing i've learned is that people are....well, people. we're ALL human regardless of our beliefs. this is about eternity,not about what a few people do to us down here on earth.
i'm sure you can do studies of the historicity of the bible,and it's as believable as the existence of alexander the great. but i highly doubt your hatred is because of lack of proof of the bible....
i'm also sure you don't really believe christians were just 'biding their time' while they were being tortured for 300 years.


if you have any belief in God you must know it's only logical to believe He knows more than we do,and he does have an ultimate standard to live by that is not subject to our liking or disliking it.

just think about yourself: i bet there are some things that are 'just wrong' in your book- as a for instance raping children for fun is wrong. now there are those pedophiles that say it isn't wrong. does that make it OK? or is it still wrong regardless of their beliefs?

now how much infinitely MORE does God know than us? If God says something is wrong, or this is how to live, or this is how to get to heaven, than how do we reject that in spite of the evidence?

[djdavo]

04-15-2003 @ 01:53 PM post located here
Vorkosigan:

2Ti 3:7 - &quot;Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.&quot;

There's something extremely apropo about using an example from a letter forged in Paul's name.

Vorkosigan

for being a sceptic you seem quite sure in your faith that it's a forged letter because of (what i presume to be) poor research from some group like the Jesus seminar.