Our Featured Member Article: Raising Cain and Abel By Dee Dee Warren

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Theology Web Proudly Presents Our Featured Member Article:

Raising Cain and Abel

By Dee Dee Warren

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As a former lock, stock, and barrel dispensational premillennialist Christian, I used to believe the necessary fiction (to make premill coherent) that there were multiple physical resurrections of the dead. For those unfamiliar with this schema, it is believed that the righteous dead are raised at the Rapture after which time Christ will set up His earthly Millennial Kingdom, but that the unsaved dead have to wait until the end of the Millennium at which point they are raised, along with the righteous who died during the Millennium, and then the Final Judgment takes place. Note that this involves at least two distinct resurrection events separates by a thousand years or so (a pre-tribber would add an additional seven years and a mid-tribber would add an additional three and one-half years to this figure). With the popularity of the Left Behind series (you know, the 67th book of the Bible – don’t get worked up, that was satirical), this has become an increasingly popularized view. But is it Biblical? The answer is a resounding, and astonishingly simple to prove, NO.

This can be done in much greater detail, but I will try to extract and dismantle a few common arguments. First, the premillennial believer will inevitably turn to Revelation 20:4-6…

Scripture Verse:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

…and state that this verse proves that there are two physical resurrections with an intervening Millennium. When confronted with the idea that the “first resurrection” is referring to the conversion experience, the argument is commonly stated that the Greek word for resurrection in this passage “anastasis” is never used for anything other than a physical resurrection, thus it must mean the same thing here when used of the “first resurrection.” At first blush, the argument appears to carry some force, but upon examination, it is really an exercise in question-begging. It is presumed the word never means anything different so it cannot mean something different here, but that is simply assuming what must be proven and pointing to one’s assumption as the proof. However, it is conceded that the other times the phrase is used in the New Testament it does refer to a physical resurrection, so in that sense, there is a presumption that it is used so here.

So how do I overcome this presumption? Well let’s see…. The word “anastasis” is communicating a concept. Words are not anything in themselves, but rather are containers for ideas. This word is a container for the concept of “being raised from the dead” in which being literally raised from the literal dead is indeed its primary meaning. However, this “concept” of being raised from the dead is used multiple times in Scripture to mean something else. In fact, it is used to describe the born again experience. Now if a premillennial believer were to ask me for another verse (other than Revelation 20:5, the verse under dispute) where the born again experience is very clearly called an “anastasis,” I would say that the request is improper. Why? Because it is not necessary for the actual word “anastasis” to be used for there to be a resurrection. It is apparent that in describing Christ’s resurrection, words other than “resurrection” are used, but no one disputes that a resurrection is being referred to. Also, there are ways to describe something without using the actual dictionary term, in other words, if you say Dee Dee never tells the truth, that is the same as calling me a liar even though you never used the actual word “liar.” Someone who never tells the truth is a liar by definition. By analogy, the born again experience is a resurrection by definition since the very descriptive words that define what a resurrection is are used of it. Let’s examine the Scriptures…

Ephesians 2:4-6

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

This verse says we were dead spiritually. This is the normal word used for dead. But we were made “alive.” This is resurrection by definition – something that is “dead” is made “alive.” Notably, the word for made alive is often used indisputably in the gospels for resurrection.

Romans 6:4

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We were “buried” and then “raised,” this is all speaking of a spiritual experience which is the anti-type to the physical resurrection to come.

Col 2:11-12

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. “

1 John 3:14

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.

And most importantly:

John 5:24-25

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

All of these verses are very clearly describing a “resurrection” regardless of the fact that “anastasis” is not used with several references from the pen of John himself. This really isn’t that radical of a concept.

This point can also be proven by defeating the premillennial idea (and one that is absolutely necessary to them) that the “final resurrection” does not include everyone that ever lived. A premillennial debate opponent once put it to me this way,

There is only one resurrection we as believers experience. We do not have a part in the final resurrection. We have already been resurrected and rewarded with thrones and crowns by then.

To begin the dismantling of this position, it is helpful to look at other writings of John to determine what he was talking about. Does John elsewhere outside of Revelation 20 mention “two” resurrections? Yes of course….

John 5:25:30

Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Okay, what do we know from this passage? First, the passage teaches TWO resurrections. This is very important, and it tells us something about the timing of these TWO resurrections. The FIRST resurrection is something that was happening right then and continues….”the hour is coming and now is.” It is a continual event. ALL BELIEVERS HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED THIS. Other Scripture sheds light on exactly what is meant by this FIRST resurrection as shown above.

But our subject resurrection verses also speaks of a SECOND resurrection. What does the verse tells us about that event?

John 5:28-30

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

It says first that “the hour is coming”- that is it is yet future to when Christ was talking. It will involved ALL of the dead who are in the graves. The righteous will receive “life” and the wicked will received “condemnation” but they ALL are resurrected, it is just a qualitatively different resurrection. But this resurrection of ALL who are dead and buried is one event. It is not the righteous at point A and the wicked at point B which is at least a thousand years away from point A. It is not just the righteous of the Millennium.

Jesus makes the same point again:

John 6:43

“Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus is speaking of the resurrection of the righteous (which we have already seen is the same event as the resurrection of the wicked) which takes place on the last day. There are no days to follow. An argument from silence here will not do, that is, that Jesus has not spoken of the wicked for Jesus again uses “the last day” and does speak of the wicked.

John 12:48

He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Paul also speaks of this in Acts 17:31 – because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness.

Paul connects the two events in Acts 24:15 – I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

This utterly defeats the premillennial paradigm which has the righteous that die prior to the Millennium resurrected before the Millennium with the wicked being raised and judged at the end of the Millennium. Jesus makes the two events at the same time! Concurrent. ON THE LAST DAY. So the wicked are judged (which is spoken of in John 5 as occurring when they are resurrected) on the last day which is the same time that the righteous are resurrected. It is one event occurring at the end of time.

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[anderpow]

It just amazes me that one would think that God would allow the church to go through the tribulation. And then using one or two verses from here and there to back up the claim I can make the Bible say whatever I want if I use one verse here and one verse there and take it out of context but Dee Dee is Entitled to have her own view. I just think she wrong on this one!

[Dee Dee Warren]

It just amazes me that one would think that God would allow the church to go through the tribulation.

It amazes me that anyone thinks the Tribulation is future when the Bible clearly says it was a first century event. But that is another thread. We can be amazed by a zillion things.

And then using one or two verses from here and there to back up the claim I can make the Bible say whatever I want if I use one verse here and one verse there and take it out of context

And it is easy to say, difficult to prove. What I stated above has been the historic position of the church for oh about two thousand years. I think it takes a bit of chutzpah to say that this then is a simple case of pulling things here and there. It may still be wrong, but it certainly isn't a case of using one or two verses here or there unless we think that the Church has been doing that for a few thousand years and we moderns know so much better. I think there is a bit more to it than that.

but Dee Dee is Entitled to have her own view. I just think she wrong on this one!

"My view" at least on this issue is the historic position ofthe Church. Those who wish to change the course of that ship have a large burden of proof. Anyways, I may be wrong on this one. We don't see that from this post.

[Trout]

You know. . .

In many circles the one resurrection viewpoint is borderline heresy, interestingly enough it seems to have been the classical position of the church for many centuries.

The last paragraph of The Athanasian Creed seems to clearly indicate one resurrection: (Attributed to Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria around A.D. 325)

"He shall come again to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire. This is the catholic faith, which except a man have believed faithfully and firmly he cannot be in a state of salvation."

The Westminster Confession (A.D. 1646) has this to say:

• Chapter XXXII.

Of the State of Man After Death, and and of the Resurrection of the Dead.

I. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption: but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them: the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies. And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day. Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.

II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed: and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.

III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonour: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honour; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.

Dee Dee, do you know the origin of the multiple resurrection theology?

Was it ANF?

[Dee Dee Warren]

Dee Dee, do you know the origin of the multiple resurrection theology?

Was it ANF?

I do not know the definite origin - whatever I say I am sure that somebody could dig up something earlier or different, but the origin of the popularization of this view is recent, and concurrent with modern dispensationalism - whether we take this back to Darby, the Plymouth Brethren, or even just the mass production of the Scofield Reference Bible in which the Bible is commentary on the notes.

[One Bad Pig]

This utterly defeats the premillennial paradigm which has the righteous that die prior to the Millennium resurrected before the Millennium with the wicked being raised and judged at the end of the Millennium. Jesus makes the two events at the same time! Concurrent. ON THE LAST DAY. So the wicked are judged (which is spoken of in John 5 as occurring when they are resurrected) on the last day which is the same time that the righteous are resurrected. It is one event occurring at the end of time.

Now that's an eye-opener, no mistake about it!¹ You aren't making it easy to be skeptical. Granted, I discarded the pre-Trib position years ago. However, I wasn't sure if mid- or post-Trib was the better position. Then I come here, and you consistently present preterist explanations that seem obvious! If you explain 1 Cor. 15 and Rev. 1-20 as well as you have Daniel/Olivet discourse/resurrection, you'll have yourself a convert.



¹Apologies to Samwise Gamgee.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Now that's an eye-opener, no mistake about it!¹ You aren't making it easy to be skeptical. Granted, I discarded the pre-Trib position years ago. However, I wasn't sure if mid- or post-Trib was the better position. Then I come here, and you consistently present preterist explanations that seem obvious! If you explain 1 Cor. 15 and Rev. 1-20 as well as you have Daniel/Olivet discourse/resurrection, you'll have yourself a convert.

Revelation is a tough nut in some ways and not in others. I have found though that it is much easier to go through the clearer passages before tackling Revelation. 1 Cor 15 though is not tough at all. In fact it was 1 Cor 15 itself that made me abandon premillennialism. It is truly a premill deal-breaker. Let me give you something to think about.

1 Corinthians 15, verses 20 through 28.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.”

Now this passage tells us, at minimum, several things important to our discussion.

ONE. Christ was physically raised first, and then those who belong to Christ will be physically resurrected at His “coming.”

TWO. After this physical resurrection of those who belong to Christ, the “end” of Christ’s reign comes.

THREE. The “end” is characterized by Christ having all things put under His feet, ending all authority and power, and swallowing up death in victory.

Now - we have seen that from my article that the resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked are on the last day - well that has to place the 1 Cor 15 event at the last day - which makes sense since the destruction of the last enemy, death, happens concurrently with Christ's return. If death is the last enemy there are no more. There can be no millenium in which satan stirs up a rebellion at the end and in which there are enough enemies of Christ to try to kill Him again. Impossible.

[One Bad Pig]

Revelation is a tough nut in some ways and not in others. I have found though that it is much easier to go through the clearer passages before tackling Revelation. 1 Cor 15 though is not tough at all. In fact it was 1 Cor 15 itself that made me abandon premillennialism. It is truly a premill deal-breaker. Let me give you something to think about.

1 Corinthians 15, verses 20 through 28.

I was troubled more by the end of the chapter (verse 52 in particular, which was instrumental in me rejecting pre-Trib).

[Dee Dee Warren]

But timing wise it flows with the points made - this is a history ending event, not a millenium beginning event.

[One Bad Pig]

But timing wise it flows with the points made - this is a history ending event, not a millenium beginning event.

Yes, but the "last trumpet" brings to mind the 7th trumpet judgement (about which point the two witnesses are resurrected), which would have occurred c. 70 AD under the preterist paradigm.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Yes, but the "last trumpet" brings to mind the 7th trumpet judgement (about which point the two witnesses are resurrected)....

Why should it? Revelation at that point mentions nothing about Christ's return (that allegedly is Chapter 19), and nothiikng about the resurrection of the saints. It may be a last trumpet (many trumpets were blown in the OT - of any event there was a last one) of that judgment event, but nothing indicates it is the last judgment of all time (trumpets are a horribly common symbol in Scripture) - in fact Revelation gives the vast timing indicator of the "thousand years" before the end of time, and the desturction of death, making the 1 Cor 15 event once again end the millennium. You have to remember that similarity of terminology does not entail exactness of reference.

[Bill the Cat]

Wish I had more time to run with this, but...

Dee Dee, you wrest the very same words out of verse 4-5 that you use to prove a future resurrection of vs. 20. "they came to life" and the "the rest came to life". Gah, wish I had time to expound...

[One Bad Pig]

Why should it? Revelation at that point mentions nothing about Christ's return (that allegedly is Chapter 19), and nothiikng about the resurrection of the saints. It may be a last trumpet (many trumpets were blown in the OT - of any event there was a last one) of that judgment event, but nothing indicates it is the last judgment of all time (trumpets are a horribly common symbol in Scripture) - in fact Revelation gives the vast timing indicator of the "thousand years" before the end of time, and the desturction of death, making the 1 Cor 15 event once again end the millennium. You have to remember that similarity of terminology does not entail exactness of reference.

Rev. 11:18

And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.<NASB>

This comes right after the seventh trumpet (v. 15), and seems to point to the final judgement -- and the trumpets in 1 Cor 15 and here are undeniably eschatological, which is why I made the connection. Rev. 11:11-12 sounds much like the Rapture, but in slow motion.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Rev. 11:18

And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.<NASB>

This comes right after the seventh trumpet (v. 15), and seems to point to the final judgement -- and the trumpets in 1 Cor 15 and here are undeniably eschatological, which is why I made the connection. Rev. 11:11-12 sounds much like the Rapture, but in slow motion.

Well again, the timing references in Revelation place that event after "a thousand years" - during a special time of restraint of satan and rule of the saints. So it cannot be refering to the final judgment - but Christ judges the dead at other intervals - in this "coming" He was pronouncing judgment on Israel - past and present. He was vindicating Himself and damning those that denied His prophets and forerunners (remember Jesus' woes to the Pharisees in Matthew 23 - that upon them would come the bloodguilt of the ages).

Also "judged" is a bad thing for the unjust but a good thingn for the just - remember in Revelation the dead saints under the altar are praying for vengeance and vindication - they are part of the dead that is "judged" - judged righteous and vindicated - the dead saints asked "how long" and this is the answer - now.

As Chilton affirmed: this is not the final judgment on the Last Day but rahter the historical vindication and avenging of the martyred saints, those who had suffered at the hands of ungodly Israel as Jesus had foretold.

With issues of judgment, unless one is a monist, one must believe there is a judgment immediatly upon death - your spirit does not go to the Lord. Each time Christ vindicates Himself and His power, His enemies, living and dead are judged. And at the final judgment, complete judgment will take place.