Was English created at the Tower of Babel?

[Cognos]

Genesis 11:1-9 (NIV)

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel - because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Does this passage explain anything?
What language did people speak before the Tower of Babel?
How many languages were there after "the LORD confused the language of the whole world"?
Is it possible that languages actually developed over time, rather than being created in an instant?



So ... when did English develop? Hey, you weren't there, so there is no evidence that English wasn't one of the languages at the time of Babel, right? It was probably hidden for centuries and then this was discovered in 1000 AD:

Fæder ure þuþe eart on heofonum

si þin nama gehalgod tobecume þin rice gewurþe þin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofonum
urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us to dæg
and forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum
and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele soþlice.

Then God and his friends came down to Earth again and changed it to this:

Oure fadir þat art in heuenes halwid be þi name; þi reume or kyngdom come to be. Be þi wille don in herþe as it is dounin heuene. yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred. And foryeue to us oure dettis þat is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris þat is to men þat han synned in us. And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.

And then they changed it again before the King James Version was written, and then they came down again ...


Does anyone accept the Biblical account as being the actual explanation for the existence of all languages?

[themuzicman]

Language is a constantly developing cultural item, which has divergence and convergence going on all the time. The tower of Babel introduced what were probably several root languages, but language continued to develop over time, and many languages have come into being and died out since then.

I don't know of anyone that says that all languages were present at the tower of Babel incident. That would simply be silly.

Your argument is one of the false dichotomy. It is certainly possible that many languages came into existance at that moment, with people of different languages unable to communicate with each other, and yet language continued to progress from that point forward, producing new dialects and languages along the way.

Michael

[Cognos]

Of course, you're right that "language continued to progress from that point forward".

Had language progressed in the time preceding the Tower of Babel?

"The tower of Babel introduced what were probably several root languages".

Which ones?

"I don't know of anyone that says that all languages were present at the tower of Babel incident. That would simply be silly."

Why is it silly? Is God not capable of creating all languages? And why does it matter that you don't know of anyone who says it? Just because you "don't know", it doesn't that mean that it can't be true. Just because there is nobody who says it, it doesn't mean that it can't be true.
(Just practicing my apologetics.)

[steamer]

Your argument is one of the false dichotomy. It is certainly possible that many languages came into existance at that moment, with people of different languages unable to communicate with each other, and yet language continued to progress from that point forward, producing new dialects and languages along the way.

It's also possible that monkeys will fly out of my dichotomy.

[themuzicman]

Of course, you're right that "language continued to progress from that point forward".

Had language progressed in the time preceding the Tower of Babel?

Good question. Probably to some extent, but all from the same root. If you look around the world, it isn't hard for several hundred million people to share a common language, even across distance, so it's very likely that they all spoke the same.

"The tower of Babel introduced what were probably several root languages".

Which ones?

We aren't told, and I'm not an etymologist.

"I don't know of anyone that says that all languages were present at the tower of Babel incident. That would simply be silly."

Why is it silly? Is God not capable of creating all languages? And why does it matter that you don't know of anyone who says it? Just because you "don't know", it doesn't that mean that it can't be true. Just because there is nobody who says it, it doesn't mean that it can't be true.
(Just practicing my apologetics.)

Capable, sure. But historical evidence says otherwise. The language we speak today is only around 500 year old or so.

Michael

[themuzicman]

It's also possible that monkeys will fly out of my dichotomy.

Looks like they did...

[Jayrok]

The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.

The author of this passage isn't doing God any justice at all. Here God is saying nothing is impossible for man.. He even hints at the idea that he believes these men will be successful in really reaching him.. so he scatters and confuses them.

[TheOneAndOnly]

It is certainly possible that many languages came into existance at that moment,

It would help if you could tell us when this incident is supposed to have happened.
I think the Babel story is referring to Babylon and Mesopotamian ziggurats being the "tower". I guess the writer was trying to mock Babylonian monument building by showing that such monuments are insignificant to God yada yada...

Incidentally, IIRC, I think the English language developed from Latin (+ Norse, Germanic), which developed from Greek, which came from Phoenician which was a form of Canaanite writing developed around 1000 BC.

In fact almost all European, Middle Eastern and Indian alphabets developed from some form of proto-Canaanite or related language.

[Jayrok]

About the languages...

If you read Chapter 10.. the table of nations..

Scripture Verse:

This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah's sons, who themselves had sons after the flood. The Japhethites
2 The sons of Japheth:
Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech and Tiras.
3 The sons of Gomer:
Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah.
4 The sons of Javan:
Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittim and the Rodanim.5 (From these the maritime peoples spread out into their territories by their clans within their nations, each with its own language.)


Cush was the father of Nimrod, who grew to be a mighty warrior on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD ; that is why it is said, "Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the LORD ." 10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in Shinar

Shinar is Babylonia

In chapter 11 -- "Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there"

again, Shinar is Babylonia

In chapter 10, the descendents of Noah spread out each in their own nation and their own language. They all didn't go to Shinar.. Cush (son of Ham) and his people went to Shinar, where the tower of Babel was. The rest of Noah's descendents went to other places in the world and each had their own language.

Maybe the tower of Babel just applied to Cush's clan? so it wasn't the "whole world".. once again, something in the bible is sorta out of whack..

That is, unless the entire world of Noah's descendents swept back through Shinar.. but even then, they all had their own languages according to chapter 10.

[TheOneAndOnly]

Maybe the tower of Babel just applied to Cush's clan? so it wasn't the "whole world".. once again, something in the bible is sorta out of whack..

I think the story was written as a metaphor. I don't think it was intended to be taken literally.

[anthrogirl]

perhaps this will help to clear up some of your confusion:

http://www.bartleby.com/61/indoeuro.html

[Rushing Jaws]

Does this passage explain anything?
What language did people speak before the Tower of Babel?
How many languages were there after "the LORD confused the language of the whole world"?
Is it possible that languages actually developed over time, rather than being created in an instant?



So ... when did English develop? Hey, you weren't there, so there is no evidence that English wasn't one of the languages at the time of Babel, right?

## This is not valid reasoning though - it depends what kind of evidence would be acceptable. I can't prove that JFK was not killed by giant spiders from Pluto - but there is no reason to think he was. He *may* have been - but then, I *may* be a slug from Venus. I can't prove I'm not, to someone who insists I am. This is why evidence is important - there is no valid reason to think I am a slug from Venus; and there is no valid reason to think that English developed three thousand years ago. The reigning explanation has sufficient "explanatory power" - so the other idea is invalid: it does not account for anything that the reigning explanation does not account for. That is why philologists no longer try to derive English from Hebrew. Theories need to be controlled by evidence, and by an appropriate method. ##

It was probably hidden for centuries and then this was discovered in 1000 AD:

Fæder ure þuþe eart on heofonum [/quote]

## "Hidden for centuries"?

Why?
When?
Where?
What is the evidence for the suggestion ?
How would English have got from Babylonia to Western Europe?
Who brought it ?
What happened to it in the millennia between the time of Abraham & the coming of the Angles to England ?
Why is there no evidence for English during that long period ?

Whose idea is this anyway, one wonders.

The whole idea seems entirely unnecessary. Sure, "God can" do anything - but it does not follow that he does. "God could" have arranged for Jesus to preach in China in the year 35 - but there is no evidence he did so :); possibility is not the same as actuality.

si þin nama gehalgod tobecume þin rice gewurþe þin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofonum
urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us to dæg
and forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum
and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele soþlice.

Then God and his friends came down to Earth again and changed it to this:

Oure fadir þat art in heuenes halwid be þi name; þi reume or kyngdom come to be. Be þi wille don in herþe as it is dounin heuene. yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred. And foryeue to us oure dettis þat is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris þat is to men þat han synned in us. And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.

## "God and his friends came down to Earth again and changed it" - can you explain, please ? TY##

And then they changed it again

## Hoped for - explanation of preceding :) TY ##

before the King James Version was written, and then they came down again ...

## Languages change over time - they are not static; English certainly is not, whether before or after 1611. ##

Does anyone accept the Biblical account as being the actual explanation for the existence of all languages?

## IMHO, it is not intended to be that. :) ##

[Seasanctuary]

I believe in language microevolution, but the idea that English's daddy is German is just a presuppositional philosophy put forth by the Nazis who wanted to demoralize British and American forces by making us think our language is just misshapen German.

No, God created each language in its kind. People who disagree just want to give into their eugenic and nationalist perversions, pass black children who say "axe," and tolerate abominations like Spanglish. Christians, be warned not to compromise with the ways of the world. Trust Genesis. The answers are there, not in what the "linguists" are saying.

P.S. - I have a Linguistics degree myself, and I'm saying this, so you can rest assured all those secular Godless linguists out there are holding their positions purely out of philosophical preferences, not because the data demands it. Data has to be interpreted. Christians are "called out" and shouldn't expect the Godless world to interpret data the right way. I know there are some Christian linguists who agree with the Godless ones, but that's because they value the affirmations of their colleagues more than they trust God. Compromisers like them have given the devil a foothold and they're probably on their way to falling from grace anyway.

[steamer]

I believe in language microevolution, but the idea that English's daddy is German is just a presuppositional philosophy put forth by the Nazis who wanted to demoralize British and American forces by making us think our language is just misshapen German.

Umm, Yer kidding right? English actually does come from England which had very strong french and germanic influences. How can you say it was just a nazi plot when so many words are shared?

[Cognos]

Steamer and Rushing Jaws: It's a joke! Maybe even a parody.

BTW, here's an interesting site: Languages of the World

Did you know that there are almost 400 languages in India?