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Derail thread: Is repentance necessary for salvation?

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  • one at a time....

    Comment


    • I note that you include Calvin in your deemed to be authoritative references: What did he have to say about baptism? To save you the trouble of looking it up:

      644146_489819517704304_823616038_n.jpg
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • In fact, it is more than once we are taught confession of Christ results in salvation.
        Acts 9:14
        Acts 9:21
        Acts 22:16
        Romans 10:9-14
        1 Corinthians 1:2
        None of those says that it results in salvation. And one of them specifically mentions baptism.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
          None of those says that it results in salvation. And one of them specifically mentions baptism.


          Romans 10:9 and 10 do say that confessing (Jesus is Lord) is a factor in salvation - but not without belief. However, in verse 9 the belief is strictly limited to belief that God raised him from the dead. Contextually, verse 10 continues with that same limitation, though by itself, no limit is explicitly stated.

          With regard to the rest: Foudroyant has conflated "call on the name of the Lord" with confession. In other discussions, he conflates it with prayer. Neither interpretation is valid.
          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.

          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment


          • 100% agreement with both those points

            Comment


            • 100% wrong on both points.

              To call upon the name of the Lord does indeed mean praying to the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:2)
              http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...the-Lord-Jesus

              2. NIDNTT: When belief and confession, heart and mouth, are in unison, there is a promise of justification and salvation for eternity (Rom. 10:8 ff.) (1:347, Confess, D. Furst).
              The word "confession" is used in association of what takes places in Romans 10:8 and following -> calling on the name of the Lord.
              The very thing you both deny.
              Another...
              TDNT: In the mouth of him to whom the word of faith is proclaimed faith in the kurios Iesous becomes the confession which saves, as Paul says in R. 10:8-10 (7:700, stoma, Weiss).

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                None of those says that it results in salvation. And one of them specifically mentions baptism.

                I already cited both Danker and Thayer that teach Romans 10:10 does. (Post #24)
                Never asserted it mentions baptism.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  I note that you include Calvin in your deemed to be authoritative references: What did he have to say about baptism? To save you the trouble of looking it up:

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]1752[/ATTACH]
                  I never cited Calvin when it came to baptism.

                  Comment


                  • Do you consider that Calvin's assessment was incorrect? Do you consider yourself an authority who can determine which theologians are reliable, and which of their comments are reliable?

                    But those are asides.

                    What does baptism into Christ achieve?

                    Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
                    What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                    Act 22:16 ‘And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
                    What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                    Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? continuing to verse 7
                    What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                    Last edited by tabibito; 08-21-2014, 10:18 AM.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • I believe that God withheld the Holy Spirit from Jews only, until they first got baptized. It most likely had to do with the fact that the Jews had killed Jesus.

                      Comment


                      • tabibito, it seems as though you do not believe the Doctrine of the Trinity. Faith in Jesus Christ and faith in the Holy Spirit is the same as or count the same as faith in God. Worshipping Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit counts the same as worshipping God.

                        Has foudroyant really been banned?
                        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                        [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                        Comment


                        • I think readers would appreciate a summary here. As I understand, the question is, what steps must happen for one to be saved? First is grace by God. Second . . . ?
                          The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                          [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                          Comment


                          • Has foudroyant really been banned?
                            That's pretty stupid. How do we contest this?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                              tabibito, it seems as though you do not believe the Doctrine of the Trinity. Faith in Jesus Christ and faith in the Holy Spirit is the same as or count the same as faith in God. Worshipping Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit counts the same as worshipping God.

                              Has foudroyant really been banned?

                              Yes. Subsequent to prior warning given a day earlier, and consequent upon a repeat offence of like kind, Foudroyant was banned. Effectively it was suicide by moderator.


                              I consider it possible that believing in Christ involves believing what he taught. Among the things he taught was obedience, and at least an outline of what we are to obey.
                              The trinity? There is but one God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - one God in three persons.

                              So, moving on from the ad homs

                              What does baptism into Christ achieve?

                              Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
                              What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                              Act 22:16 ‘And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
                              What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                              Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? continuing to verse 7
                              What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                              Last edited by tabibito; 08-22-2014, 02:23 AM.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                What does baptism into Christ achieve?

                                Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
                                What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                                Act 22:16 ‘And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
                                What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                                Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? continuing to verse 7
                                What does baptism into Christ achieve?
                                Acts 2:38 does not teach that baptism is the means to receive forgiveness of sins or to receive the Holy Spirit. That it does not do.

                                Acts 22:16, Saul was given three instructions:
                                1) Arise
                                2) be baptized
                                3) wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (see 1 John 1:8-2:2.)

                                As to the last question, it signifies one is dead to the world and is going to live for God. (see Romans 6:1-4; 1 Peter 3:18-21 ". . . the answer of a good conscience toward God . . . .") [If Christ is not risen, 1 Corinthians 15:12-19, 29-30.]
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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