Originally posted by Sparko
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Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
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Richard Dawkins: A Gift From God
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"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostNo more than a Christian's ideas about moral objectivity would.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostExcept in our world objective moral law would actually exist, even if we sometimes misunderstood it. And the universe would be, in the end, a just place."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI don't think you understand what "objective morality" means."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostI understand precisely what is meant by the phrase. I don't understand why you would think the assertion that objective morality exists "boils down to opinion" for an atheist but not for a theist.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI was referring to your comment that atheists are all over the place as to why something is moral or not (Society, Plato, Evolution, etc) and basically it just boils down to different atheists have different opinions on why something is moral. They might all agree that murder is immoral, but one might say because it hurts society, one might say because we evolved to believe it is immoral, another might say it is not immoral. That all boils down to a subjective standard of morality.
Atheists are no more a single, monolithic whole than are theists."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostOn the Platonist, spiritualist, and humanist views, objective morality would actually exist, as well, even if we sometimes misunderstood it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostFor anyone interested, I will be interviewing R. Scott Smith of BIOLA on his book "In Search of Moral Knowledge" this Saturday on this very topic.
With these discussions, I think it's important to start with a simple question.
Does objective goodness exist and what is it?
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell no, until they can show how moral truths can exist objectively apart from a mind the claims are not coherent."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post...they all do this. Platonists argue that abstracts are actual, extant entities. Humanists and spiritualists argue that actions have objective consequences which can be evaluated.Last edited by seer; 08-26-2014, 10:38 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course they make the case but it is not coherent. For instance with reincarnation - what created these moral rules that we are governed by? Matter and energy? Do mater and energy care about how we treat each other? As far as moral abstracts, how do they exist? Ethics are about interpersonal interaction, without minds I just don't see it - they might as well go the next step and invoke God. And even if Platonic realism was true, what authority would these moral abstracts have over us. Why would we be obligated to follow them."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostI'm not a Humanist, a spiritualist, or a Platonist, so I won't attempt to defend their position. I'm simply noting that such people do exist.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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