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Thread: The Truth About Emperor Frederick The Second

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    tWebber TimelessTheist's Avatar
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    The Truth About Emperor Frederick The Second



    What now, secularists?
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

    -Thomas Aquinas

    I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

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    -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

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    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
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    Although I am not a secularist, I thank you for the educational video.
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

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    tWebber TimelessTheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    Although I am not a secularist, I thank you for the educational video.
    Nah, I just said that because secularists often claim Frederick the Second as their own due to the myths made up about him.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

    -Thomas Aquinas

    I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

    -Hernando Cortez

    What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

    -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimelessTheist View Post
    Nah, I just said that because secularists often claim Frederick the Second as their own due to the myths made up about him.
    I think your overstating the claims that Frederick II was a secularist?, or whatever that means at the time he ruled. Sources?!?!? Richard Dawkins did not even go that far. Some older historians of the early 20th century used such modern terms as free thinker to describe his views, but secularism and atheism as such did not really exist at the time he ruled, except among some philosophers of that period and maybe earlier. The closest I can find as a true secularist was Lucretius of 1st century BCE Rome.

    It could possibly concluded that he had some Deist views, and possibly a In any historical analysis, it is important to avoid ascribing our modern perceptions of specific philosophies or ideologies to persons who lived long ago. Historians used to describe him as a Renaissance Man or free thinker as those phrases are understood today. He did establish the University of Naples independent of the Roman Church to promote a more secular education.

    A careful reading of all his writings indicate he remained an establishment believer in God and the authority of the Roman Church. I do believe the description of him as a limited Renaissance thinker within the tradition of the Roman Church as ok.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-26-2014 at 08:01 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

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    tWebber TimelessTheist's Avatar
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    Some older historians of the early 20th century used such modern terms as free thinker to describe his views
    Eh, they describe him as an early secularist.

    It could possibly concluded that he had some Deist views,
    No it can't. He was Roman Catholic, through and through.

    Historians used to describe him as a Renaissance Man or free thinker
    Well, I agree with the first one, however the term 'freethinker' is practically a meaningless term now-a-days.

    He did establish the University of Naples independent of the Roman Church to promote a more secular education.
    Eh, all universities not built by the Church itself were considered separate from the Church. Though, there's no evidence that he did it to provide a more "secular education", whatever that means, especially since Thomas Aquinas attended it.
    Last edited by TimelessTheist; 08-27-2014 at 02:55 AM.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

    -Thomas Aquinas

    I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

    -Hernando Cortez

    What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

    -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

  6. #6
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimelessTheist View Post
    Eh, they describe him as an early secularist.
    Who?

    Most reliable academic sources describe him as secular leanings, as I did, and not a secularist. This use of secularist would be a contradiction.



    No it can't. He was Roman Catholic, through and through.
    I did not say he was a deist, his writings indicate predominantly theism supporting the Divine authority of theocracy, but also indicate some deist views.



    Well, I agree with the first one, however the term 'freethinker' is practically a meaningless term now-a-days.
    What terms used now-a-days has little meaning at the time of Frederick II
    Eh, all universities not built by the Church itself were considered separate from the Church. Though, there's no evidence that he did it to provide a more "secular education", whatever that means, especially since Thomas Aquinas attended it.
    He built it to be separate from the church, So what about Thomas Aquinas?
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-28-2014 at 01:02 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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