Originally posted by Sparko
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Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
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7up's War on Motherhood
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7-up's strategy is clear. Basically he knows he cannot answer our objections to mormonism, so he plays the victim, accusing everyone of being against him. This way he changes the topic from the actual point to getting everyone to defend their "victimizing" of him or the LDS.
It is pure deflection and very passive aggressive. I see it all of the time with liberals. You make a statement like "people should work for a living instead of living on welfare" and rather than discussing the piont, they will come back with "Why do you you hate poor people so much?" and stuff like that.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Postwaits to see if 7Up is man enough to admit he was wrong about SparkoThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostWhat is wrong with taking the kids to soccer?
What is wrong with cleaning the house?
What is wrong with bearing children?
What is wrong with making dinner?
The statement given in order to mock the LDS idea of a Mother in Heaven treated these activities listed above with derision.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI was not mocking motherhood or housewives but the fact that mormons expect their women to only be those things ...
Originally posted by Sparko View PostNow this is at least the third time I have given you this explanation and you continue to ignore it and repeat yourself and accuse me of "mocking motherhood"
At this point I have no problem calling you a dishonest liar. So much for how honest and upstanding mormons are supposed to be.
That isn't what I am getting at, so it is you who is being dishonest. I am getting at WHY you think that this is a view that should be mocked or criticized, especially when it is a similar view found in the rest of Christianity, not just Mormonism.
In fact, the point that I made very early on in this discussion is that this is the same kind of mockery that comes from non-Christians, and is directed towards Christians. So, why have you joined the anti-Biblical world view? Just because at that moment in your discussion with me, you found it to be a convenient way in order to attack Mormonism?
-7upLast edited by seven7up; 10-30-2014, 02:18 AM.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Postwaits to see if 7Up is man enough to admit he was wrong about Sparko
I am waiting to see if any of you are willing to read and address the Biblical teachings about the role of women, even as presented by solidly gounded evangelicals like John M.
I provided the link. Here it is again. In part 2 he goes into the detail of the Biblical text here: http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons...r-Women-Part-2
Any takers?
-7up
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7up wrote: What is wrong with taking the kids to soccer? What is wrong with cleaning the house?
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhat is wrong with YOU doing these things?
7up: What is wrong with bearing children?
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI hope you'd agree that's a pretty gender specific function.
7up: What is wrong with making dinner?
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhat's wrong with YOU making dinner? I do it a lot!
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThe "LDS idea of a Mother in Heaven" is just one more total fabrication that got inserted into your mess of theology, and now you're stuck defending it, ...
-7up
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostI am proud to defend it.
I am proud of my mother. I am proud of my wife.
I am proud of having a Mother in Heaven.
-7upThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostI am waiting to see if any of you are willing to read and address the Biblical teachings about the role of women, even as presented by solidly gounded evangelicals like John M.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostWhat is wrong with "only" being a housewife Sparko?
Come on 7up. You obviously know what I was saying and you just want to draw a line in the sand to pick a fight over. It is amusing, but dishonest.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNothing if that is what a woman wants. I was speaking about the options that mormon leaders have given women (as referenced by my quotes) that say a woman should only be a housewife and mother. That is their proscription for their function. They frown on women working or not being married and having children.
Come on 7up. You obviously know what I was saying and you just want to draw a line in the sand to pick a fight over. It is amusing, but dishonest.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBecause you have no choice --- it's one of those dumb things your church came up with and you're stuck with it. ...Yuh..... you can keep saying that -- it's still a totally made up "doctrine". And goofy.
-7upLast edited by seven7up; 10-30-2014, 05:42 PM.
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7up wrote: I am waiting to see if any of you are willing to read and address the Biblical teachings about the role of women, even as presented by solidly gounded evangelicals like John M.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat has NOTHING to do with the totally made up "doctrine" of a "Heavenly Mother" about which you know NOTHING. The idea that you have a female in Heaven relegated to the role of endlessly squirting out spirit babies is beyond goofy.
Just there to "squirt out babies"?
(It appears that all you are doing is pushing your distorted view of women and applying it to the LDS belief in Heavenly Mother. Your false view of women is the problem.)
I don't view women and mothers in that way at all.
I'm sure John MacArthur doesn't view women in that way either. Nevertheless, as you can see, he has a similar view to that of LDS concerning the traditional roles of men and women, and he backs it up with the Bible. Your mockery of "stay at home mothers" has everything to do with the world view provided by scripture. So, what are you mocking exactly?
-7up
P.S. The creation of spiritual children should not be considered the same as creating physical children, so your offensive way of describing babies "squirting" out isn't applicable anyways.Last edited by seven7up; 10-30-2014, 05:54 PM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNothing if that is what a woman wants. I was speaking about the options that mormon leaders have given women (as referenced by my quotes) that say a woman should only be a housewife and mother. That is their proscription for their function. They frown on women working or not being married and having children.
Come on 7up. You obviously know what I was saying and you just want to draw a line in the sand to pick a fight over. It is amusing, but dishonest.
Why don't you read John MacArthur's scriptural analysis of this subject? I will be happy to discuss it with you. Perhaps you won't so easily be willing to mock John MacArthur as you are willing to mock Mormons, when he breaks it down step by step from the Bible.
-7up
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