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Thread: The Strong Horse

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    The Strong Horse

    “When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse” Osama bin Laden

    ISIS is gaining converts from the Middle East to India, to Central Europe to Britain to Western Europe. They seek a world wide caliphate and there is no guarantee that we will stop them. They may in fact win and take the world. Not only are they more aggressive and determined, in Europe the Muslims are reproducing at higher rates than the white Europeans. Is this not the evolutionary process in action? Or rather how is it any different in kind to this:

    In 1974, Jane Goodall witnessed a disturbing scene in Gombe Stream National Park, Tanzania. A gang of male chimpanzees invaded their neighbors’ territory and attacked a male chimp sitting by himself in a tree. The intruders dragged the chimpanzee to the ground, pinned him down, and bit and hit him all over his body. The attack ended when one member of the gang threw a rock at the bleeding victim. The battered chimp was never seen again and presumably died from his injuries.

    The murderous chimpanzees weren’t attacking a stranger: They had recently all belonged to the same group. When the group split in two, one community took over the northern half of the range and the other the southern half. From 1974 to 1977, during the “four-year war,” the northern males obliterated the southern community, hunting down and killing all of its adult males. The northerners took over their enemies’ territory and females.

    This was the first time scientists had documented “warfare” among chimpanzees. It wasn’t the last.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/health...ggression.html
    Last edited by seer; 09-04-2014 at 01:20 PM.
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law.
    The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.”
    Grant Gilmore

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    tWebber phank's Avatar
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    People tend to look for simple answers in a complex world. Religion provides simple answers. That's what it's for.

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phank View Post
    People tend to look for simple answers in a complex world. Religion provides simple answers. That's what it's for.
    Well that did not deal with what I asked.
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law.
    The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.”
    Grant Gilmore

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    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    ISIS is gaining converts from the Middle East to India, to Central Europe to Britain to Western Europe. They seek a world wide caliphate and there is no guarantee that we will stop them. They may in fact win and take the world. Not only are they more aggressive and determined, in Europe the Muslims are reproducing at higher rates than the white Europeans. Is this not the evolutionary process in action? Or rather how is it any different in kind to this:
    In the broadest possible sense yes you can describe human wars as "evolutionary processes". Just like you can describe the rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel as "Newton's laws of motion in action".

    Do you have any sort of point?

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    In the broadest possible sense yes you can describe human wars as "evolutionary processes". Just like you can describe the rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel as "Newton's laws of motion in action".

    Do you have any sort of point?
    So the only moral consideration, in the end, is survival - survival = good, not surviving = bad.
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law.
    The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.”
    Grant Gilmore

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    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    So the only moral consideration, in the end, is survival - survival = good, not surviving = bad.
    If you wish to adopt that moral position that's your choice. Evolution doesn't say anything about morality. Morals are an agreed upon set of rules that a society tries to live by. What is considered moral has varied tremendously over time and with different cultures.

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    tWebber
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    Yes it is, seer.

    Now what do you think "we" ought to do about it from each of the following Weltanschauungen?

    1) "Darwinist" perspective

    2) Secular Humanist perspective

    3) Christian Humanist perspective

    Please address this question since it will help you to focus the thread.

    K54

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    “When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse” Osama bin Laden

    ISIS is gaining converts from the Middle East to India, to Central Europe to Britain to Western Europe. They seek a world wide caliphate and there is no guarantee that we will stop them. They may in fact win and take the world. Not only are they more aggressive and determined, in Europe the Muslims are reproducing at higher rates than the white Europeans. Is this not the evolutionary process in action? Or rather how is it any different in kind to this:



    http://www.slate.com/articles/health...ggression.html
    When ISIS uses a bomb to kill people, is that chemistry in action?

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Method View Post
    When ISIS uses a bomb to kill people, is that chemistry in action?
    And what is your point? Is not survival the bottom line?
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law.
    The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.”
    Grant Gilmore

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    If you wish to adopt that moral position that's your choice. Evolution doesn't say anything about morality. Morals are an agreed upon set of rules that a society tries to live by. What is considered moral has varied tremendously over time and with different cultures.
    Don't call it moral then - is not survival the ultimate aim, the only thing that really matters in the end?
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law.
    The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.”
    Grant Gilmore

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