Announcement

Collapse

Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

Theists only.

This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.

The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.

The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."

The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Aliens = angels & demons?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Your unicellular hate speech won't be tolerated here.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Duragizer View Post
      ...I doubt they'd be interested in taking on human wives or breeding with them (that'd be like a human wanting to marry and start a family with an amoeba).
      What if they wanted to experiment, as some unethical scientists may want to experiment breeding humans and apes?

      Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
      Your unicellular hate speech won't be tolerated here.
      Ha!

      Comment


      • #18
        I believe that fallen angels are in chains, awaiting their judgment (Jude 1:6) and don't see any scriptural warrant for restricting this verse to only some of them.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I believe that fallen angels are in chains, awaiting their judgment (Jude 1:6) and don't see any scriptural warrant for restricting this verse to only some of them.
          You haven't had any experience with them directly have you?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
            You haven't had any experience with them directly have you?
            Other supernatural beings could be demons, which we know weren't immediately put in chains.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Other supernatural beings could be demons, which we know weren't immediately put in chains.
              What reason do we have to believe that demons are anything other than fallen angels?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                What reason do we have to believe that demons are anything other than fallen angels?
                Because Jude portrays fallen angels them as waiting in chains after their rebellion but the gospel account portrays demons as running around for the time being. Separate terms are used for them so I see no reason to conflate the two.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Because Jude portrays fallen angels them as waiting in chains after their rebellion but the gospel account portrays demons as running around for the time being. Separate terms are used for them so I see no reason to conflate the two.
                  Interesting. This is a topic that really fascinates me (naturally), but the Bible doesn't have much to say about it.
                  I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Because Jude portrays fallen angels them as waiting in chains after their rebellion but the gospel account portrays demons as running around for the time being. Separate terms are used for them so I see no reason to conflate the two.
                    Then what about Satan? Is he a fallen angel, or something else? Jude seems to be speaking about what happened before the flood of Noah*. Do you think that all sinning angels but one were put in chains way back then?

                    *The link between Tartarus, and the Nephilim(Greek gigantes which was their word for "Titans" which is where the whole "giants" thing came from) seems to be there. Given that Tartarus was where the Titans of Greek mythology were thrown when defeated by the Greek pantheon.

                    http://www.tektonics.org/gk/gen6.php
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfTSpFhiyB8

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                      Interesting. This is a topic that really fascinates me (naturally), but the Bible doesn't have much to say about it.
                      Maybe it's just as well that it doesn't. I think CS Lewis was on to something when he said that one mistake was not to believe in devils and that the other was to be obsessed with them.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        Then what about Satan? Is he a fallen angel, or something else? Jude seems to be speaking about what happened before the flood of Noah*. Do you think that all sinning angels but one were put in chains way back then?

                        *The link between Tartarus, and the Nephilim(Greek gigantes which was their word for "Titans" which is where the whole "giants" thing came from) seems to be there. Given that Tartarus was where the Titans of Greek mythology were thrown when defeated by the Greek pantheon.

                        http://www.tektonics.org/gk/gen6.php
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfTSpFhiyB8
                        If there's that much evidence that this is its referent then I suppose that could be a legitimate reason to restrict the scope.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Maybe it's just as well that it doesn't. I think CS Lewis was on to something when he said that one mistake was not to believe in devils and that the other was to be obsessed with them.
                          Agreed.
                          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            From the article:
                            In my book The Mormon Defenders, I noted that the evidence indicates that Judaism of Jesus' era, before, and after, believed that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 were fallen angels, and that this understanding is also indicated by 1 Peter.

                            If referring to the following, I don't consider it to be discussing angels of Noah's time. I think it should be read this way:

                            JESUS PREACHING TO HUMAN SINNERS IN SHEOL

                            1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

                            1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

                            1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient.
                            COMPARISON OF BAPTISM TO THE FLOOD

                            1 Peter 3:20 When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

                            1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
                            In other words I believe 1 Peter 3:20 ought to be split as it moves on to a different subject when discussing Noah's time, 1 Peter 3:19 is not talking about angels who took wives, but about humans.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                              From the article:

                              If referring to the following, I don't consider it to be discussing angels of Noah's time. I think it should be read this way:

                              JESUS PREACHING TO HUMAN SINNERS IN SHEOL



                              COMPARISON OF BAPTISM TO THE FLOOD



                              In other words I believe 1 Peter 3:20 ought to be split as it moves on to a different subject when discussing Noah's time, 1 Peter 3:19 is not talking about angels who took wives, but about humans.
                              That doesn't take into account Jude and the mention of Tartarus, and the angels who were there in chains. Then there's the "strange flesh" they went after. As well as what's talked about in 2 Peter 2. All of it together points towards the view of the "sons of God" being the angels bound in chains, in Tartarus.

                              Jude 1:6-8
                              New American Standard Bible (NASB)
                              6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after [a]strange flesh, are exhibited as an [b]example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

                              1 Peter 3:19-20
                              New American Standard Bible (NASB)
                              19 in [a]which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the [b]water.

                              2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a [a]preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

                              Given that in Sodom and Gomorrah, the people tried to be* with angels, I think the above verses, combined with everything else give more than sufficient evidence to accept the "sons of God" as angels.

                              *Trying to be polite here.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I agree with Jude and 2 Peter about angels and the rest of your comments, but I think interpreting 1 Peter 3:19 as referring to angels is entirely off the wall coming from nowhere since it is sandwiched between concepts that deal entirely with human salvation.

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X