Don't You Dare Wear That American Flag T-shirt!

[fm93]

again. If they were trying to start a fight then they should have been arrested for that. The flag was irrelevant even by your own argument. Inciting violence was the problem. So to make a decision that wearing the US flag by anyone is going too far. If anyone wearing an american flag is a problem then those who are offended need to get over it. It is the flag of the country, fer crying out loud. Everytime the president is on TV, they show the flag. If people are offended by that does that mean the president should stop showing the flag in his appearances?

Heck even the school (every school) has the American flag out front. Should they ban that too?

So...what's the disagreement here? I don't think featuring the flag should be banned. Just prohibit the particular people who do so with the intention of inciting violence from wearing it. People don't find the flag offensive in a vacuum, just in that particular context.

[Jedidiah]

This is all complete BS.

To quote from Darth's link, "If the school is incapable of maintaining discipline, maybe it shouldn’t celebrate Cinco de Mayo."

[Darth Executor]

So...what's the disagreement here? I don't think featuring the flag should be banned. Just prohibit the particular people who do so with the intention of inciting violence from wearing it. People don't find the flag offensive in a vacuum, just in that particular context.

The context is a group of invaders bringing their degeneracy to their new home. Expecting said invaders to become integrated should be banned, says square_peg. When Jim Crow has made a spectacular comeback (with ajdustments for modern demographics, of course) and the Zyklon B is pumping through the ceiling vents will you bawl about how it wasn't your fault?

[seer]

I've heard of this case, but I'm not familiar with the finer details. Did they simply decide to march through a town that as it turned out had a high Jewish population, or did they choose this particular town knowing the demographics and deliberately trying to incite violence?

What do you think the Nazis were trying to do? It didn't "turn out" to have a high Jewish population, it was targeted because it did have a high Jewish population, with quite a few Holocaust survivors. And there was no evidence that these kids wanted to incite violence.

Your own link said that they were Mexican-Americans, seer. In other words, they're American. I doubt that they hate the American flag; to the contrary, they're probably proud of their citizenship of this country. But they clearly value their Mexican family heritage as well, and they were angered by the fact that people who don't share that heritage were brazenly disrespectful of it. To paint this issue as "those Mexicans hate the American flag" is inaccurate.

Then why would seeing the American flag upset them so? And why is wearing the American flag "brazenly disrespectful" of anything?

[Kristian Joensen]

What do you think the Nazis were trying to do? It didn't "turn out" to have a high Jewish population, it was targeted because it did have a high Jewish population, with quite a few Holocaust survivors. And there was no evidence that these kids wanted to incite violence.



Then why would seeing the American flag upset them so? And why is wearing the American flag "brazenly disrespectful" of anything?

It is a matter of the context of the event. Why did they choose that particular day to wear the American flag to that particular school with its particular demographics? Smells like deliberate in your face provocation to me.

[Sparko]

It is a matter of the context of the event. Why did they choose that particular day to wear the American flag to that particular school with its particular demographics? Smells like deliberate in your face provocation to me.

that's because you are looking for an excuse to claim these kids were wrong. How do you know that they didn't wear their flag shirts on other days? and if they did decide to wear them on that day, so what? That is not inciting violence. That is free speech. Now if they went around shoving and screaming at the Mexicans, trying to start a fight, then that would be inciting violence. And the flag shirts would not have made a difference one way or another.

Should we ban atheists from theologyweb because they are "brazenly disrespectful" to Christianity and religion?

[Kristian Joensen]

I am not for banning anyone from wearing any t-shirt under any circumstances.

[Epoetker]

I am not for banning anyone from wearing any t-shirt under any circumstances.

I am, but I'm thinking more for 'pornographic photo prints' than words in 99.99 percent of cases.

[Raphael]

that's because you are looking for an excuse to claim these kids were wrong. How do you know that they didn't wear their flag shirts on other days? and if they did decide to wear them on that day, so what? That is not inciting violence. That is free speech. Now if they went around shoving and screaming at the Mexicans, trying to start a fight, then that would be inciting violence. And the flag shirts would not have made a difference one way or another.

Sparko, I do remember when the case first came out, the boys in question wore the shirts they wore in order to cause a scene and incite violence. That is the reaction they were after.

And again I'll note that wearing the shirts should NOT have caused any such reaction, I think that is a separate issue that needs addressing as well. If wearing a shirt with the USA flag on it, to an USA school regardless of the day it happens to be should not be any cause for any negative reaction.

That doesn't change the fact that the boys knew what the reaction would be and wore the shirts to get that reaction, they were doing the equivalent of shouting FIRE in a crowded theatre probably while some others (those who reacted negatively) letting off a few smoke bombs.

Should we ban atheists from theologyweb because they are "brazenly disrespectful" to Christianity and religion?

It would make the Nat Sci area easier to deal with

[rogue06]

Sparko, I do remember when the case first came out, the boys in question wore the shirts they wore in order to cause a scene and incite violence. That is the reaction they were after.

No. That was what they were accused of doing by those who took action against them in order to justify said action. I'm not saying that they aren't correct but there is a difference. IIRC, the parents of one of the kids involved said that he wore the shirt on a regular basis.

[seer]

No. That was what they were accused of doing by those who took action against them in order to justify said action. I'm not saying that they aren't correct but there is a difference. IIRC, the parents of one of the kids involved said that he wore the shirt on a regular basis.

Correct, that was a slur against these boys.

[seer]

That doesn't change the fact that the boys knew what the reaction would be and wore the shirts to get that reaction, they were doing the equivalent of shouting FIRE in a crowded theatre probably while some others (those who reacted negatively) letting off a few smoke bombs.

No they weren't. No more that the Nazis marching in the largely Jewish town of Skokie, IL

[Raphael]

No. That was what they were accused of doing by those who took action against them in order to justify said action.

Fair enough, I am basing my statement on what I remember of the case and I didn't pay that much attention to it because it was an american thing. (But I have a gift for remembering random, interesting but useless facts, this was one of them

I'm not saying that they aren't correct but there is a difference. IIRC, the parents of one of the kids involved said that he wore the shirt on a regular basis.

Mmmm, regardless of whether or not he wore the shirt on a regular basis, I think that his motives on that day are what were important if they chose it in order create conflict, it does put a different emphasis on things than if they happened to randomly wear it.

[Raphael]

No they weren't. No more that the Nazis marching in the largely Jewish town of Skokie, IL

I have never heard of the situation that you are talking about. But I would say there is a difference between what I would allow on the public streets, and in a school (even a public one) I do think that the safety of the kids needs to be taken into account.

1.) I will again say, there should not be an issue, regardless of the day of the year, with American kids wearing shirts with the USA flag on it going to an American school. The fact that there was a negative reaction I believe needs to be addressed. As such I disagree with the ruling of the court.

2.) IF the boys were innocently wearing the shirts, I have no problem with the deputy Principal, seeing that there was a negative reaction asking the boys to hide the flag. He is charged with keeping the kids safe afterall.

3.) IF the boys were wearing the shirt in order to cause a scene and incite violence, then I have almost have as big an issue with that as with the first point. As much as people having a negative reaction to your flag being worn needs dealing with, so too are people who would use in in order to cause that reaction. IF this was the case I do believe that BOTH issues should be dealt with (and not in the manner that the court has)