Zell Miller's Speech

[Xavier]

There's a couple of lines in Zell Miller's speech on Tuesday night that I have some reservations about...

Here's the text in question:

[url=http://www.gopconvention.com/cgi-data/speeches/files/ie65ay1zuai2r6ttb19uj6s2y6q7930j.shtml

GOP Offical Transcript of Miller Speech[/url]] Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations.

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide.

John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.

That's the most dangerous outsourcing of all. This politician wants to be leader of the free world.

© source where applicable

Is that really a position of Kerry? I searched a bit on Kerry's site and (surprise) didn't find such a position explicitly stated there.

Is there a speech where Kerry said something along those lines?

Yours,
Xavier

[brett]

There's a couple of lines in Zell Miller's speech on Tuesday night that I have some reservations about...

Here's the text in question:

[url=http://www.gopconvention.com/cgi-data/speeches/files/ie65ay1zuai2r6ttb19uj6s2y6q7930j.shtml

GOP Offical Transcript of Miller Speech[/url]] Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations.

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide.

John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security.

That's the most dangerous outsourcing of all. This politician wants to be leader of the free world.

© source where applicable

Is that really a position of Kerry? I searched a bit on Kerry's site and (surprise) didn't find such a position explicitly stated there.

Is there a speech where Kerry said something along those lines?

Yours,
Xavier

I think when pressed, Kerry stated he would go it alone if he had too. But getting permission from the United Nations (i.e. France, Germany, Russia) has been implicit in his criticisms of Bush. And I wouldn’t doubt it if there were some explicit statements out there also. There's no doubt in my mind he would have caved to the UN on the Iraq issue.

[bar Jonah]

That was one heckuva speech, tho! Yowzer. He came angry and he didn't get any better from there on! :rilol:

Like Cheney said, I'm glad he's on our side! :rithumb: I wouldn't wanna meet him in a bright alley!

[reasonabledoubt]

Isn't there a difference between getting "permission" from the UN and getting them to come around to our way of thinking and thus help us out so we don't have to go it alone, both militarily and financially?
The Republicans are clouding this issue, trying to make it seem like Kerry would go and beg the UN to let us do stuff, and would only do it if the big bad UN would let us.

[NSMinistries]

The speech was pretty impressive IMO. I didn't know about Kerry saying no to all those military options. Being from a military family I'm glad his votes didn't sway the issues. I would probably not have half the family I have now if they didn't have those weapons and aircraft.

[Twilly Spree]

Isn't there a difference between getting "permission" from the UN and getting them to come around to our way of thinking and thus help us out so we don't have to go it alone, both militarily and financially?
The Republicans are clouding this issue, trying to make it seem like Kerry would go and beg the UN to let us do stuff, and would only do it if the big bad UN would let us.

Agreed, I think that Zell's speech my backfire on the GOP. Did you hear him with Matthews? He's just so angry he's nonsensical.

[Captain Ochre]

Isn't there a difference between getting "permission" from the UN and getting them to come around to our way of thinking and thus help us out so we don't have to go it alone, both militarily and financially?

Sure, but if the UN won't go along with you than you've got to either buck the UN (as Bush did) or concede that the UN has got you on a leash.
As usual, Kerry has staked out the middle ground by his words.

The Republicans are clouding this issue, trying to make it seem like Kerry would go and beg the UN to let us do stuff, and would only do it if the big bad UN would let us.

Miller is a Democrat.
The comment is best understood in terms of the Gulf War, which Kerry opposed despite the international coalition, and in terms of the Cold War, in which case Kerry opposed the strong countering of Soviet Communism.

Miller's comments (and in the context of his speech it was presented this way, IIRC) do not represent what Kerry says, but what Kerry's past actions would suggest.

[brett]

Miller's comments (and in the context of his speech it was presented this way, IIRC) do not represent what Kerry says, but what Kerry's past actions would suggest.

Exactly!

Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than 20 weeks of campaign rhetoric.

Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are.How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside.

Remarks by Sen. Miller to the Republican National Convention
washingtonpost.com

[brett]

Agreed, I think that Zell's speech my backfire on the GOP. Did you hear him with Matthews? He's just so angry he's nonsensical.

Hmmm. Politics can get tricky in this area, but I'll make the opposite prediction. I think this speech injured Kerry beyond recovery and will continue to do so. The content of the speech is devastating. The mainstream media is going to have to find a way to point out the meanness of it without talking about it’s content. Otherwise, Kerry is going to have to spin many of the things Zel said or the public won’t trust him as commander in chief. I don’t see how this is possible. It seems Kerry’s best option is to ignore it and hope the public forgets about it. But if he keeps pointing out the meanness of it, that won’t happen. Plus you have the Michael Moore factor! How in the world can someone who invites Moore to speak at his convention complain about Zel Miller? Seems like a checkmate to me. But we’ll see.

[Captain Ochre]

Agreed, I think that Zell's speech my backfire on the GOP. Did you hear him with Matthews? He's just so angry he's nonsensical.

You're referring to Matthews being nonsensical, correct?

MATTHEWS: OK. Do you believe now—do you believe, Senator, truthfully, that John Kerry wants to defend the country with spitballs? Do you believe that?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5892840/

[Busheses]

I would like to know what prompted him to switch sides. Back in 92 he said just about the same thing he said now but back then it was about the first Bush. Now it is in favor of the other Bush. Same message.

Any ideas?

[Rusty T]

People are still watching MSNBC? geesh

[reasonabledoubt]

So what Miller is a democrat by label. He' s more of a Republican than half the Republicans at the convention, like Schwarzenegger, for one.
And yes he supported Clinton. Is Miller running for election again? I'm guessing not.

[Rusty T]

I told my wife as I was watching the speech, "He seems too angry. It's a heckuva speech, but he comes across as mad."

I know I loved what he had to say, but how he said it wasn't the best approach. The third night of the convention was definitely its worst. But - I hope the Prez can bat clean up tonight and bring it all home.

Rusty

[seer]

Is that really a position of Kerry? I searched a bit on Kerry's site and (surprise) didn't find such a position explicitly stated there.

I believe he said exactly that back in 71 or 72? I think his position has changed though...