The Bah'ai Faith

[jpholding]

The rest of my family is mostly into Bahai. Much of what Tizzi said in msg. 1 I can confirm.

Interestingly my family considers Joseph Smith a fraud, since he made his own claims to revelation at more or less the same time as Bahaullah. They call Mormons a "cult" with no regrets.

[spl_cadet]

Sounds like commie unitarianist new age neo-pagans.

[Solly]

Today @ 03:29 PM post located here
spl_cadet:

Sounds like commie unitarianist new age neo-pagans.

Except they started a while before such terms existed spl!

[kiwimac]

But Solly!

You've taken away Spl_cadet's answer to Life, the Universe and Everything!

Kiwimac

[kiwimac]

JR,

Here are those urls

http://www.montana.com/bupc/index.html

[Bahais under the provisions of the covenant]

http://www.rt66.com/~obfusa/council.htm

[Orthodox Bahai Council]

Now it is true that the Universal House of Justice does describe these other groups as not being "truely" Baha'i BUT I find it very interesting that this is one group of Baha'is deciding that others who self-identify as Baha'is (Baha'u'llah's definition surely) are not really true Baha'is.



Kiwimac

[Jin-Roh]

"Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity." Bahá u lláh

God sound like fortune cookie.

Of course some of the proverbs might sound like a fortune cookie too. But I would challenge their adherents to give a reasonable defense on why I should believe that these words are, in fact, the revelation from God.

Fullfillment of prophecy and continuity between several authors and time periods are reason why I would accept the Bible.

Either way thanks for the links kiwi.

[Evangel]

people are not very quick to admit their shortcomings even using ignorance as an excuse.

[sysedco]

I always find it interesting how people want to call everything other than their belief system a cult. It is a subtle way of admitting they can not defend their faith so they attack another. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in the Bah'ai faith and I believe they are in error, but can't we stick with the actual definition of a cult:

A system of religious belief and worship.

That's it! That's a cult. Christianity is a cult, so is Mormonism, Bah'ai and all the rest. So, let's get off our cult mindset of anti-denfense and begin to actually defend what we believe.

[FirstSunday33ad]

It doesn’t matter if Bah’ai is a cult or not, it matters only if it is true. Based on that list, I would conclude that it isn’t.

Consider what it says:

“Most of the world's faiths have been founded by "Manifestations of God"
No one of these Manifestations is more significant than the other.
Today world is living under the revelation of God in Baha'ullah”

This is impossible. If each manifestation is from God, who is acknowledged as more powerful than man, and He gave equal importance to each manifestation, then it follows that they should agree at least in the core fundamentals. But they do not; they diametrically disagree. So that either means God is confused or that man can affect His manifestation. If it is the former, God is not all-knowing and if it is the latter He is not all-powerful.

The latter scenario also begs the question “how do we know Baha’ullah didn’t affect the manifestation himself and change it to suit his own purpose?”

And if we are living under the manifestation of Baha’ullah, why is it so little known? One would expect it would be more widely known especially in a time of mass media and universal literacy.

This is exactly the type of “revelation from God” I would expect to see during a turbulent time of competing social ideas. It strikes as a synthesis between religion and socialism with the cultural stamp of its place of origin.

[wesleyb]

The Baha'i revelation was always independent of Islam a young man who called himself the Bab(the gate) declared that he was here to prepare the way for the promised one of all ages his followers were called the Babi faith who then became bahai's or followers of Baha(Glory) or bahullah when he declared that he was the promised one

[wesleyb]

These manifestations are equal. However their messages are not the messages are progressive and unfolding. and all error is from men whom God doesnt control he has given us free will

[wesleyb]

Bupc are covenant breakers(the covenant that says bahaullahs revelaton/dispensation will always in succession have a head or central authority) that dont follows the succession of authority from bahaullah to abdul-baha to shogi effendi to the universal house of justice and are not considered true bahais

[shunyadragon]

I've been studying the Bah'ai faith, b/c as what happens in my life every few months, I get the religious itch. There are many reasons for this - most of them sociological and psychological- but the Bah'ai faith is very interesting to say the least. Here are some of it's basic tenets:
1. God is one. He is the immutable. That which is far beyond our comprehension.
2. God is revealing himself through progressive revelation.
3. Most of the world's faiths have been founded by "Manifistations of God" (i.e. Buddha, Jesus, etc.).
4. No one of these Manifistations is more significant than the other.
5. Today world is living under the revelation of God in Baha'ullah.
6. There will be no other prophet for 1000 years.
7. The races are one race. Racial strife and tension should end.
8. The genders are equal. Gender inequality should end.
9. Education is obligatory
10. Independent investigation of the truth is encouraged.
11. The unity of Religion
12. No clergy
13. Economic justice
14. Environmental awareness
15. "harnessing of the lower nature" i.e. Spiritiual laws for government of life
16. Daily prayer, choosing from three obligator prayers, the shortest which states, "I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."
17. Daily Readings of sacred scriptures from Baha'ullah, and others.
18. Fasting for 19 days from sun up to sun down during March.
19. The nineteen day feast, which is a once a month gathering (i.e. a church service)
20. Life after death.

This list is very simplistic. Anyone else got any thoughts on the Baha'i faith?

tizzi

I am a Baha'i with strong Buddhist leanings, in part because it appeals to universal, which Aristotle proposed in Physica that we must first appeal to the universal when seeking solutions in all disciplines. Another belief systems does well in considering the Universal, the Unitarian Universalists from the humanist perspective, but I am a theist, and the Baha'i is the only belief system that appeal to the universal from that perspective.

I do not believe in the Baha'i Faith because it what is the most comfortable to me, because I am not comfortable nor in agreement with some Baha'i beliefs are it is not. There are aspects of the Baha'i Faith that are important to me, such as the 'Harmony of Science and Religion,' which is not found in Christianity nor Islam.

I have intensely investigated all theist beliefs and found them wanting manly because they believe in a narrow highly doctrinal view of the nature of God from an ancient cultural perspective. I found that, particularly in Christianity, appeal to reform and humanism to address the changing modern world, and the result is more churches.

The Baha'i Faith recognizes an dynamic evolving universal spiritual nature of humanity that parallels our evolving physical nature. This is in harmony with the reality of human history.

[shunyadragon]

[QUOTE=FirstSunday33ad;112840]It doesn’t matter if Bah’ai is a cult or not, it matters only if it is true. Based on that list, I would conclude that it isn’t.

Consider what it says:

“Most of the world's faiths have been founded by "Manifestations of God"

Misleading, The Baha'i Faith teaches an evolving spiritual nature universal in humanity in universal revelation. The Major world Religions are a part of this evolving spiritual nature, but 'most' represents an ambiguous word in this context.

No one of these Manifestations is more significant than the other.

Again misleading, in believing in revelation being universal and representing an evolving spiritual nature all Manifestation are of the same essential nature. There significance and difference comes comes with the nature of their Revelation, which becomes more encompassing and all embracing with each age of humanity.

Today world is living under the revelation of God in Baha'ullah”

Yes, that is the claim of the Baha'i Faith, because Baha'u'llah embraces the universal in Revelation for the first time in human history.

This is impossible. If each manifestation is from God, who is acknowledged as more powerful than man, and He gave equal importance to each manifestation, then it follows that they should agree at least in the core fundamentals. But they do not; they diametrically disagree. So that either means God is confused or that man can affect His manifestation. If it is the former, God is not all-knowing and if it is the latter He is not all-powerful.

No they do not necessarily agree in the core fundamentals. The first example of this fallacy is the comparison of Judaism and Christianity, they diametrically disagree.

There are fundamentals that most religions agree, such as, the belief in one supreme source, but because of culture and time humans tend to carve God into their own image and create doctrines of differences as between Judaism and Christianity.

And if we are living under the manifestation of Baha’ullah, why is it so little known? One would expect it would be more widely known especially in a time of mass media and universal literacy.

First problem, you are appealing to the fallacy of popularity to justify a belief.

Second the Baha'i Faith is well known, much better know at this age than other ancient religions. It is established in every country of the world, and widely recognized.

This is exactly the type of “revelation from God” I would expect to see during a turbulent time of competing social ideas. It strikes as a synthesis between religion and socialism with the cultural stamp of its place of origin.

As does every religion in history.

Based on its scripture it does not strike any such synthesis. In fact it does not embrace socialism more than any other economic system in any form. The beliefs concerning God and the relationship with humanity represent more simplicity and not synthesis, basically rejecting the rigid doctrinal view of individual ancient religions.

[shunyadragon]

The rest of my family is mostly into Bahai. Much of what Tizzi said in msg. 1 I can confirm.

Interestingly my family considers Joseph Smith a fraud, since he made his own claims to revelation at more or less the same time as Bahaullah. They call Mormons a "cult" with no regrets.

The Baha'is do not call the LDS a cult, but individuals may. The primary objection to LDS is polytheism.