Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

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    1. #1
      Robyn Banks's Avatar
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      Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      Scientists try to date the Priestly Benediction
      Ancient scroll the subject of archaeological detective
      story

      By John Noble Wilford, New York Times
      http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Storie...431928,00.html

      ... An archaeological discovery in 1979 revealed that the
      Priestly Benediction, as the verse from Numbers
      6:24-26 is called, appeared to be the earliest
      biblical passage ever found in ancient artifacts. Two
      tiny strips of silver, each wound tightly like a
      miniature scroll and bearing the inscribed words, were
      uncovered in a tomb outside Jerusalem and initially
      dated from the late seventh or early sixth century
      B.C. -- some 400 years before the famous Dead Sea
      Scrolls...

      ... researchers at the University of Southern
      California have now re-examined the inscriptions using
      space-age photographic and computer imaging
      techniques. The words still do not exactly leap off
      the silver. But the researchers said they could
      finally be "read fully and analyzed with far greater
      precision," and that they were indeed the earliest.

      In a scholarly report published this month, the
      research team concluded that the improved reading of
      the inscriptions confirmed their greater antiquity.
      The script, the team wrote, is indeed from the period
      just before the destruction of Jerusalem in 586 B.C.
      by Nebuchadnezzar and the subsequent exile of
      Israelites in Babylonia.

      The researchers further reaffirmed that the scrolls
      "preserve the earliest known citations of texts also
      found in the Hebrew Bible and that they provide us
      with the earliest examples of confessional statements
      concerning Yahweh."

      Some of the previously unreadable lines seemed to
      remove any doubt about the purpose of the silver
      scrolls: They were amulets. Unrolled, one amulet is
      nearly 4 inches long and an inch wide and the other an
      inch and a half long and about half an inch wide. The
      inscribed words, the researchers said, were "intended
      to provide a blessing that will be used to protect the
      wearer from some manner of evil forces."

      The report in The Bulletin of the American Schools of
      Oriental Research was written by Dr. Gabriel Barkay,
      the archaeologist at Bar-Ilan University in Israel who
      discovered the artifacts, and collaborators associated
      with Southern California's West Semitic Research
      Project....

      ... Pitard said the evidence for the antiquity of the
      benediction was now compelling, although this did not
      necessarily mean that the Book of Numbers already
      existed at that time. Possibly it did, he added, but
      if not, at least some elements of the book were
      current before the Babylonian exile.

      A part of the sacred Torah of Judaism (the first five
      books of the Bible), Numbers includes a narrative of
      the Israelite wanderings from Mount Sinai to the east
      side of the Jordan River. Some scholars think the
      Torah was compiled in the time of the exile. A number
      of other scholars, the so-called minimalists, who are
      influential mainly in Europe, argue that the Bible was
      a relatively recent invention by those who took
      control of Judea in the late fourth century B.C. In
      this view, the early books of the Bible were largely
      fictional to give the new rulers a place in the
      country's history and thus a claim to the land.

      "The new research on the inscriptions suggests that
      that's not true," Pitard said. In fact, the research
      team noted in its journal report that the improved
      images showed the seventh-century lines of the
      benediction to be "actually closer to the biblical
      parallels than previously recognized."

      Dr. P. Kyle McCarter of Johns Hopkins University, a
      specialist in ancient Semitic scripts, said the
      research should "settle any controversy over these
      inscriptions."

      A close study, McCarter said, showed that the
      handwriting is an early style of Hebrew script and the
      letters are from an old Hebrew alphabet, which had all
      but ceased to be used after the destruction of
      Jerusalem. Later Hebrew writing usually adopted the
      Aramaic alphabet.

      There was an exception in the time of Roman rule,
      around the first centuries B.C. and A.D. The archaic
      Hebrew script and letters were revived and used widely
      in documents. But McCarter noted telling attributes of
      the strokes of the letters and the spelling on the
      amulets that, he said, ruled out the more recent date
      for the inscriptions. Words in the revived Hebrew
      writing would have included letters indicating vowel
      sounds. The benediction, the scholar said, was written
      in words spelled entirely with consonants, the
      authentic archaic way...

      ... Dr. Esther Eshel, a professor of the Bible at Bar-Ilan
      and an authority on Hebrew inscriptions, said this was
      the earliest example of amulets from Israel. But she
      noted that the language of the benediction was similar
      to a blessing ("May he bless you and keep you") found
      on a jar from the eighth century B.C.

      If the new findings are correct, the people who wore
      these amulets may have died before they had to face
      the limitations of their efficacy. They might then
      have asked in uncomprehending despair, "Where was
      Yahweh when the Babylonians swooped down on
      Jerusalem?" ...

    2. #2
      shunyadragon's Avatar
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      Re: Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      Quote Originally posted by Robyn Banks
      Scientists try to date the Priestly Benediction
      Ancient scroll the subject of archaeological detective
      story
      By John Noble Wilford, New York Times
      http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Storie...431928,00.html

      If the new findings are correct, the people who wore
      these amulets may have died before they had to face
      the limitations of their efficacy. They might then
      have asked in uncomprehending despair, "Where was
      Yahweh when the Babylonians swooped down on
      Jerusalem?" ...
      I agree that this is a remarkable find, but I disagree that the finding of priestly benediction that date to this time indicate that the pentateuch can be dated to this time.
      Go with the flow the river knows.

      Frank Doonan
      Hillsborough, NC 27278

      Gifts of jade-silk change weapons and war into peace and friendship.

      I do not know, therefore I think . . . and everything is in pencil.

    3. #3
      Robyn Banks's Avatar
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      Re: Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      Quote Originally posted by shunyadragon
      I agree that this is a remarkable find, but I disagree that the finding of priestly benediction that date to this time indicate that the pentateuch can be dated to this time.
      Accepting the dating, there is no necessary reason for accepting the existence of the remainder of the Pentateuch. The particular form of the writing may provide some evidence of whether it was a part of the wider Pentateuch. But I can't see anything being very conclusive one way or the other.

      On the other hand, 600 BC is not unreasonable a date for the Pentateuch to have been in existence. Who really knows?

      Robyn Banks

    4. #4
      shunyadragon's Avatar
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      Re: Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      Quote Originally posted by Robyn Banks
      Accepting the dating, there is no necessary reason for accepting the existence of the remainder of the Pentateuch. The particular form of the writing may provide some evidence of whether it was a part of the wider Pentateuch. But I can't see anything being very conclusive one way or the other.

      On the other hand, 600 BC is not unreasonable a date for the Pentateuch to have been in existence. Who really knows?

      Robyn Banks
      If specific random scrapes of the pentateuch can be found dating to this period with this older writing, like found related to the NT, then the evidence would be very good if not conclusive for the existence of the writen pentateuch.

      These priestly benidiction scrolls are important in establishing preistly ritual and the tradition of writen scripture.
      Go with the flow the river knows.

      Frank Doonan
      Hillsborough, NC 27278

      Gifts of jade-silk change weapons and war into peace and friendship.

      I do not know, therefore I think . . . and everything is in pencil.

    5. #5
      Chavoux's Avatar
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      Re: Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      I find it strange that theologians are so quick to see the possible links and even postulate the enuma elish and Gilgamesh epic as the origins of the Biblical text and when they have a direct quote from Number 6: 24-26 AND Deut. 7:9 together (b.t.w that is both the P and D "sources" according to the JEDP hypothesis), they still hold that the Pentateuch could not be seen from these quotes as being written before this time.

      Please explain to me the reasoning. We now know that alphabetic writing already existed by the time of Moses. We now also know that religions do not evolve from "simple" animism to polytheism to monotheism. We have not a single peace of physical evidence that more than one person wrote the Torah. We have pre-exilic references in the prophets to the Torah of Moses. We have at least one piece of archaeological atifact, dated to pro-exilic times with two quotes from supposedly different sources of the Torah together and still they insist on a late date for the formation of the Torah from separate sources. Why?
      Hear, Yisra'el: the LORD is our God; the LORD is one: and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

    6. #6
      FreezBee's Avatar
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      Re: Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      Quote Originally posted by Chavoux View Post
      I find it strange that theologians are so quick to see the possible links and even postulate the enuma elish and Gilgamesh epic as the origins of the Biblical text ...
      Which theologians, rather than archeologists and historians, have been quick to see the possible links between the Enuma Elish and the Gilgamesh epic and the biblical text? I am not saying that there are none, just curious.

      Quote Originally posted by Chavoux
      ... and when they have a direct quote from Number 6: 24-26 AND Deut. 7:9 together (b.t.w that is both the P and D "sources" according to the JEDP hypothesis), they still hold that the Pentateuch could not be seen from these quotes as being written before this time.
      There is a difference between concluding from two large texts to concluding from two tiny texts.

      Quote Originally posted by Chavoux
      Please explain to me the reasoning.
      The reasoning is that such formulaic amulets do not by themself indicate that their texts were part of a larger body. They might have been, but there is no particular evidence that they were. This formulae might have been wellknown and therefore incorporated in the Pentateuch together with other traditional material. I am not saying that is what happened, only that we have this far no archeological evidence that it isn't.

      Quote Originally posted by Chavoux
      We now know that alphabetic writing already existed by the time of Moses. We now also know that religions do not evolve from "simple" animism to polytheism to monotheism. We have not a single peace of physical evidence that more than one person wrote the Torah. We have pre-exilic references in the prophets to the Torah of Moses.
      And evidence that they weren't incorporated post-exilic?

      Quote Originally posted by Chavoux
      We have at least one piece of archaeological atifact, dated to pro-exilic times with two quotes from supposedly different sources of the Torah together and still they insist on a late date for the formation of the Torah from separate sources. Why?
      For a variety of reasons probably. The currently available archeological evidence isn't sufficient to conclude that the Torah was written by one person at some time back in the bronze age.


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    7. #7
      Chavoux's Avatar
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      Re: Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      Quote Originally posted by FreezBee View Post
      Which theologians, rather than archeologists and historians, have been quick to see the possible links between the Enuma Elish and the Gilgamesh epic and the biblical text? I am not saying that there are none, just curious
      .
      Almost all liberal theologians that I have had to do with... (University of Pretoria, South Africa)

      Quote Originally posted by FreezBee View Post
      There is a difference between concluding from two large texts to concluding from two tiny texts.
      Yes, but the two tiny texts consists of direct quotes (ok, possibly less direct for Numbers), whereas there are real big differences between the Biblical texts as well as the Enuma Elish and the Gilgamesh epoch.

      Quote Originally posted by FreezBee View Post
      For a variety of reasons probably. The currently available archeological evidence isn't sufficient to conclude that the Torah was written by one person at some time back in the bronze age.
      No, the text itself (Deut.31:9) as well as later writers (for apparently no good reason) ascribed it to Moses. If anybody claims that Shakespeare did not write the plays and sonnets ascribed to his name (and yes, they did at one stage), they had better have some good reasons. That Moses did not write the epilogue to Deuteronomy has long been known and accepted (before the JEDP hypothesis). Except for that, I don't see any "currently available archeological evidence" that the Torah was not written at the time it claims to be written. To claim the opposite, there needs to be at least some evidence.

      At the time of Wellhausen there was at least some justification for his position. 1. He assumed that religions evolved from primitive to monotheism. 2. It seemed that the alphabetical writing didn't exist yet in the time of Moses. 3. It seemed possible to easily distinguish the different sources according to their Hebrew grammar and usage of different Names of God. None of the original premises holds anymore. Why then accept the conclusion of a flawed argument?
      Hear, Yisra'el: the LORD is our God; the LORD is one: and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

    8. The following tWebber says Amen to Chavoux for this useful Post:


    9. #8
      Super Cow's Avatar
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      Re: Biblical texts dated to 600 BC

      Technically hieroglyphics are an alphabetic phonetic writing system, and they existed before Moses, so I don't see why Isreal couldn't have an alphabetic writing system. Maybe it was even developed by Moses, or carried over from his 40 years with the Midianites.

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