The Death Penalty (Christians only)

[efta777]

I was discussing this issue with my roomate the other day and I came out of it not completely sure what to think; should we, as Christians, support the death penalty? I know in my own life that if someone killed someone I loved that I would desire for capital punishment upon that person, but is that a Christian attitude? I'm not convinced any longer that it is; I mean, sure the person deserves to be killed, but (Cliche statement alert), what WOULD Jesus do? He would love them. I am not saying that they shouldn't be sent to prison and punished for what they did (I think prison's should be MUCH less accomidable than they are now), but I don't know that we should kill them.
In the Old Testament, capital punishment was very prominant in the law, but the reason this was so was so that the person could atone for their sins, which is irrelavent now that Christ was killed and became the final atonement for all.

So what does everyone think about this?

[Bartholomew]

Today @ 03:46 PM post located here
efta777:

I was discussing this issue with my roomate the other day and I came out of it not completely sure what to think; should we, as Christians, support the death penalty? I know in my own life that if someone killed someone I loved that I would desire for capital punishment upon that person, but is that a Christian attitude? I'm not convinced any longer that it is; I mean, sure the person deserves to be killed, but (Cliche statement alert), what WOULD Jesus do? He would love them. I am not saying that they shouldn't be sent to prison and punished for what they did (I think prison's should be MUCH less accomidable than they are now), but I don't know that we should kill them.
In the Old Testament, capital punishment was very prominant in the law, but the reason this was so was so that the person could atone for their sins, which is irrelavent now that Christ was killed and became the final atonement for all.

So what does everyone think about this?

Although the question WWJD is appropriate in any situation, we should remember that since Jesus is God, the question is rightfully, What would God do?

(NASB) Genesis 9:6:

Whoever sheds man's blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made man.

What evidence do we have that this law was removed? This mandate, like that given to men to subject and rule the world, is still in effect today...

Since you are against the death penalty, what Biblical reasoning do you have against it? In my humble estimation, the evidence points toward a Jesus--God Himself--that is pro-death penalty.

~Matt

[djnoz]

I disagree on account of what Jesus did when those Pharisees wanted to stone that woman. 'let the one who is without fault throw the first stone'.

Locking a murderer up for life is better punishment than the death penalty anyway - imagine the boredom. Also, there is no 'too late' if they are proven innocent.

[Bartholomew]

Today @ 05:00 PM post located here
djnoz:

I disagree on account of what Jesus did when those Pharisees wanted to stone that woman. 'let the one who is without fault throw the first stone'.

This hardly does John 8 any justice. How is Jesus rejecting captial punishment here? He does not challenge the people's right to carry out the punishment, but only questions their sinfulness.

Besides, the passage in question is, well, under question, as its validity is doubtful; it is contained in none of the earliest manuscripts.

Locking a murderer up for life is better punishment than the death penalty anyway - imagine the boredom. Also, there is no 'too late' if they are proven innocent.

Sorry, I think Paul is pretty clear in Romans 13:4 that the government has the "sword" for a reason. Perhaps it means to use the sword in a peaceful manner, not in enforcing laws with the death penalty?

In John 19:10 we see Jesus declaring that the power Pilate had to execute Jesus was by divine appointment.

Finally, how do you explain Genesis 9:6? Did God decide to abolish that law after Christ came?

~Matt

[AcousticJS]

Yesterday @ 10:00 PM post located here
djnoz:

I disagree on account of what Jesus did when those Pharisees wanted to stone that woman. 'let the one who is without fault throw the first stone'.

I would suggest that the planned execution of the woman is part of God's covenant with Israel, whereas the Genesis 9 command is part of God's covenant with the whole of humanity, where execution is strictly limited to murder of another human being. If I'm right, then John 8 has no real bearing on Genesis 9.

Also, I've read some who say that a possible reason Jesus acted as He did was because the Law was being administered in an unjust manner. Under the Mosaic Law, it wasn't just the woman who should be stoned - the man should as well. Not only that, but they dragged the woman straight from the act of adultery, which would imply she was still naked. The righteousness of Jesus was then riled against the Pharisees, and resulted in extending mercy to the woman.

If the people I've read are correct, and I suspect they may be, then I can't help wondering whether Jesus would have intervened if both involved had been brought before Him and a public humiliation hadn't been made of the woman. This is pure speculation though.

Locking a murderer up for life is better punishment than the death penalty anyway - imagine the boredom. Also, there is no 'too late' if they are proven innocent.

This is one reason I would suggest the death penalty is actually fairer than life imprisonment. To deliberately and slightly morbidly condemn someone to a life of boredom is a disrespect of the (admittedly fallen) image of God reflected in that individual. The 'too late' problem wouldn't really be a problem if administered correctly - the Biblical standard seemed to be 2 or 3 actual witnesses.

God bless
Jon

[GrayPilgrim]

Today @ 04:16 AM post located here
AcousticJS:


The 'too late' problem wouldn't really be a problem if administered correctly - the Biblical standard seemed to be 2 or 3 actual witnesses.

God bless
Jon

I concur. In fact that was they only way that it was allowed to happen. I thnk an overhaul that required this would remove much of the injustice involved, since most people don't commit murder with two or three people watching. It would reduce the numbers of people who get the death penalty.

GP

[D.C.]

I am pro-capital punishment and this is why. I am majoring in Criminology in college and the one thing I have found is that prison is not a real punishment or deterent. I have met and talked with several ex-convcts and persons still in prison and they have all said the same things, "there is no such thing as rehabilitation in prison", "we control what happens here", etc. It is easier to get some things, i.e drugs, alcohol, sexual favors, then it is on the streets. It is not a prison, it is paradise for the deviants of society. God made his law very clear to us, as stated in Genesis. Whenever a society decides it can do a better job then God and his son Jesus Christ, then that society ceases to be viable. The only true law is Gods law and we'd be wise to follow it unless we want to bring about our own demise.

[Solly]

With DJ, I am anti-CP (which could also be because we are Brits, and we got rid of it decades ago.)

The government bears the sword, sure, but that does not mean a literal sword at all times. The Bible also speaks about the "rod of correction" for children. How many here use a literal rod? All the time, if you do? It is a matter of ultimate sanctions, but the government decides what that sanction is.

Secondly, governments are ordained of God, but we live in democratic societies, and the people's will makes the law in such things, and the people say no over here in Britain. That's it. I am not sure the Americans have it any better, since you still have a frontier mentality without any decent gun control. And you leave your crims to fester on death row for years.

Thirdly, death is ultimately with God. All WILL die for their sins, whether it was murder of whatever. As a Baptist I reject that magesterium derived view that Christians legislate for society, and am honestly disturbed when I hear people baying for blood all the time in this issue. It seems to me to be just as cultural as the British view opposing it.

And yes, if I suffered a loss by a murder, I know I would want to do something about it, but that is not my right in a democratic country, nor is it right as a Christian to indulge the obviously sinful feelings of hate, anger and revenge. I must go to God. Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord; the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

[Hitch]

Jesus would apply the Law.

[Solly]

Today @ 05:14 PM post located here
Hitch:

Jesus would apply the Law.

Jesus WILL apply the law - Acts 17. But he won't apply Israel's covenant law to another situation.

[Hitch]

Yesterday @ 10:00 PM post located here
djnoz:

I disagree on account of what Jesus did when those Pharisees wanted to stone that woman. 'let the one who is without fault throw the first stone'.

Jesus correctly and to the letter applied the Law. Jesus also set the perfect example. We should take care to follow him.

Locking a murderer up for life is better punishment than the death penalty anyway - imagine the boredom. Also, there is no 'too late' if they are proven innocent.

Yeah you're right God is a retard and didnt know about DNA etc...Too bad you werent there on the Mountain, with Moshe you could have avoided so much of the trouble he caused.

But please, if its not too much trouble, provide a Scripture or two that says " Locking a murderer up for life is better punishment than the death penalty anyway" Or at least explain why God is too stupid to know this.

Take care

Hitch

[Hitch]

Today @ 05:16 PM post located here
Solly:



Jesus WILL apply the law - Acts 17. But he won't apply Israel's covenant law to another situation.

What Law was applied to Sodom?

[semmie]

Today @ 04:16 AM post located here
AcousticJS:

the Law was being administered in an unjust manner. Under the Mosaic Law, it wasn't just the woman who should be stoned - the man should as well. Not only that, but they dragged the woman straight from the act of adultery, which would imply she was still naked. The righteousness of Jesus was then riled against the Pharisees, and resulted in extending mercy to the woman.

If the people I've read are correct, and I suspect they may be, then I can't help wondering whether Jesus would have intervened if both involved had been brought before Him and a public humiliation hadn't been made of the woman. This is pure speculation though.


This is one reason I would suggest the death penalty is actually fairer than life imprisonment. To deliberately and slightly morbidly condemn someone to a life of boredom is a disrespect of the (admittedly fallen) image of God reflected in that individual. The 'too late' problem wouldn't really be a problem if administered correctly - the Biblical standard seemed to be 2 or 3 actual witnesses.

God bless
Jon

well said, jon! i think you hit quite a few nails smack-dab on the head, here. what we've got is #a: a god who demands justice (gen. 9:6); #b: a god who extends mercy (john 8); and #c: a god who is completely bright enough to know exactly when and how much of each to administer. as pointed out above, god allows those in power to use the death penalty ONLY under the condition that there are minimally two witnesses, according to the OT. i think under these circumstances, there would be much less room for error.

and i think it's worth noting....the john 8 passage says flat out....verse 6...."they were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him." they were not trying to stone this woman because she was caught in sin. they were trying to back jesus into a corner. in this regard, i don't even think this passage is applicable to the question of capital punishment. they could've stoned her without bringing her to jesus, and no one would've thought twice, i'm sure.

so does scripture support capital punishment? i would say so. but i don't necessarily think that means scripture condones the way the US carries out capital punishment.

nevertheless, most of us in the US know that it is against the law to kill another human being. and although i always wonder if rehab is available or appropriate for convicted murderers, i also have to step back and say--you know; we have laws for a reason. you choose to break it, and you'd better be prepared to face the consequences. and let's face it--murder is not as innocent as going 60 in a 55mph zone....it doesn't merit a second chance.

that's what i think, anyway...

[wienerdog]

I go back and forth on this issue. One comment I would make to those in support of it is: do you want your government to have so much control that they can take your life if they think they have good reason?

[Bartholomew]

Today @ 09:15 PM post located here
wienerdog:

I go back and forth on this issue. One comment I would make to those in support of it is: do you want your government to have so much control that they can take your life if they think they have good reason?

If that government was founded on "Christian" values, at least concerning the death-penalty, I believe all Christians should support that kind of government; it would be doing what is just.

Concerning non-Christians...that's, obviously, a different story.

~Matt