Income Inequality?

[Sam]

Hey, I have an idea! Instead of entering into a contract with an employer over a wage, then blowing up and pitching a hissy because you don't like it --- how bout actually proving to the employer that you ADD VALUE and are WORTH MORE!!!!!

But, naw.... just use the ol' liberal "I pretend to care so I'm going try to force other people to use their OWN money instead of mine to solve the problems I pretend to solve".

Are minimum wage workers today worth over $2/hour less than minimum wage workers in the 1960s? No measure of worker productivity has even made the claim, let alone supported it with evidence. Yet, minimum wage earners today make over $2/hour less than minimum wage workers did in the 1960s. Somehow, "proving value" hasn't even kept these wages constant, let alone increased them. For some inscrutable reason, textile manufacturing moved from low-wage jobs in American cities to even lower-wage jobs overseas. Was production in Bangladesh that much better than production in Los Angeles or does "value" actually actually mean something closer to "most return on capital"?

It's an odd sort of schizophrenia that touts capitalism, which is premised on building shareholder wealth (capital), as the best economic model and then turns around to argue that practical application of the model will preference labor over capital.

[Cow Poke]

Are minimum wage workers today worth over $2/hour less than minimum wage workers in the 1960s?

Sam, besides posting lots of stuff on the internet, what are you actually DOING for the poor? Do you, for example, voluntarily pay more taxes than you are obligated to pay*? Besides all this "posting stuff", what skin do you really have in the game?




*At one point, JimL insisted there was "no mechansim" to do this, but it's actually quite easy! I wonder how much JimL has paid since learning of that option.

[Sam]

Sam, besides posting lots of stuff on the internet, what are you actually DOING for the poor? Do you, for example, voluntarily pay more taxes than you are obligated to pay*? Besides all this "posting stuff", what skin do you really have in the game?




*At one point, JimL insisted there was "no mechansim" to do this, but it's actually quite easy! I wonder how much JimL has paid since learning of that option.

I don't answer this question for two reasons:

1. Jesus told me not to publicly wave around my service as a form of credentialism.

2. It's irrelevant to the truth-value of propositions or the soundness of an argument.

So, moving back to the topic, here's a chart of worker productivity over time and the real minimum wage, over the same period:



It's hard to argue that corporations are setting hard work as a factor of "value" if productivity has kept going up but wages have stagnated or (as is the case here) fallen.

[Cow Poke]

I don't answer this question for two reasons:

1. Jesus told me not to publicly wave around my service as a form of credentialism.

Yeah, when you're not doing anything, hide behind the Bible. (Reminds me --- "The ballot box is sacred, so I can't answer whether I voted for Obama or not".

Until you liberals step it up and start putting skin in the game, get your hand out of my pocket.

[Cow Poke]

1. Jesus told me not to publicly wave around my service as a form of credentialism.

When you had this "little talk with Jesus", Sam, did He tell you that the best way to do "charity" was to steal money from hard working people and pass it around to your constituents?

[Sam]

Yeah, when you're not doing anything, hide behind the Bible. (Reminds me --- "The ballot box is sacred, so I can't answer whether I voted for Obama or not".

So says the Lord:

"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

When therefore you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.

And when you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners, in order to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.

[phank]

Yeah, when you're not doing anything, hide behind the Bible. (Reminds me --- "The ballot box is sacred, so I can't answer whether I voted for Obama or not".

Until you liberals step it up and start putting skin in the game, get your hand out of my pocket.

He asked why his credentials are necessary to validate his facts. Interesting that you simply omitted the facts and kept pounding on the credentials.

Many, perhaps most, employers consider you to be "worth more" if what you add to the bottom line goes to them and not to you. During the Great Recession, we saw what happened. Those perceived as worth more were retained (often at reduced pay, nearly always at reduced pay compared to workload) and so we watched unemployment and underemployment go up nearly as fast as corporate profits. I guess it's one thing to demonstrate to your employer that you "ADD VALUE" and are "WORTH MORE!!!!" to him, and another thing to demonstrate that your added worth and value should wind up in your pocket rather than his.

Some employers do seem enlightened enough to understand that keeping good people happy is worth paying them more -- at least when replacements are harder to find.

[Cow Poke]

So says the Lord:

You wanna play dueling verses, Sam?

Matt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

I didn't ask how much you GIVE, I asked what you DO, and if you voluntarily give more than is required. To give only the REQUIRED amount is not "giving".

So far, the only thing it seems you do is wax eloquent on the internet trying to justify forcing people to give up THEIR money instead of yours.

[Darth Executor]

I don't answer this question for two reasons:

1. Jesus told me not to publicly wave around my service as a form of credentialism.

2. It's irrelevant to the truth-value of propositions or the soundness of an argument.

So, moving back to the topic, here's a chart of worker productivity over time and the real minimum wage, over the same period:



It's hard to argue that corporations are setting hard work as a factor of "value" if productivity has kept going up but wages have stagnated or (as is the case here) fallen.

Productivity has gone up because technology makes it easier to do more with less work, not because people are working harder and harder.

At least for some. For others their job is worth less because you and Spartacus flooded the market with Mexicans.

[Cow Poke]

Productivity has gone up because technology makes it easier to do more with less work, not because people are working harder and harder.

I REALLY hate it when I have to amen DE!

(Ummmm... I amen'd it before the second comment was added. )

[Cow Poke]

He asked why his credentials are necessary to validate his facts.

No, he didn't. He asked no such thing. He claimed that Jesus told him something, when, in fact, Jesus was speaking to a specific audience for an intended purpose in a non-western culture. It's called "context".

[Sam]

You wanna play dueling verses, Sam?

Matt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

I didn't ask how much you GIVE, I asked what you DO.

So far, the only thing it seems you do is wax eloquent on the internet trying to justify forcing people to give up THEIR money instead of yours.

I find quote-mining to be somewhat boorish. I find quote-mining Scripture to be somewhat offensive. I find quote-mining Scripture by a Christian who knows the context of the verses in question highly offensive. You're asking for credentials which are irrelevant to the topic and demanding to know actions better kept secret, as clearly stated by Christ Himself. You're essentially trying to goad me into something I consider sinful so you can either prove a irrelevant point or compare metaphorical wieners. I'll have none of that, thank you.

[Spartacus]

When you had this "little talk with Jesus", Sam, did He tell you that the best way to do "charity" was to steal money from hard working people and pass it around to your constituentsCEOs?

fify; nc

[Cow Poke]

I find quote-mining to be somewhat boorish.

Yet YOU start with the "Jesus told me...". Stop being Boorish, Sam ---- don't get cable!

[Cow Poke]

1. Jesus told me not to publicly wave around my service as a form of credentialism.

So says the Lord:

I find quote-mining to be somewhat boorish... ...offensive.... ...highly offensive...

I don't suppose you see the steaming pile of hypocrisy here, Sam.