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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Hi CP. Could you explain why the Gov. Brownbacks conservative laboratory of Kansas is in the tank?
    As soon as you explain why Gov. Brown's liberal laboratory of California is in the tank, ok?

    Gosh, that was easy... no wonder your argue like this Jimmy. No thinking required.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      As soon as you explain why Gov. Brown's liberal laboratory of California is in the tank, ok?

      Gosh, that was easy... no wonder your argue like this Jimmy. No thinking required.
      Um, what?

      Source: Brown Proposes Record $106.8 Billion California Budget. Michael B. Marois. Bloomberg.com. 2014.01.09

      California Governor Jerry Brown proposed a record $106.8 billion budget as state coffers brim with the biggest surplus in more than a decade, setting up a fight with fellow Democrats who want more spending.

      The 75-year-old Brown, who may seek a fourth term this year, called for an 8.5 percent increase from current spending, with $11 billion to pay off loans that papered-over previous deficits, and $1.6 billion in reserves, while increasing funds for schools, welfare and health care for the poor. Brown also said he’ll back a constitutional amendment to stockpile unpredictable capital-gains taxes and deal with looming shortfalls in public pensions.


      “This year the news is very good, but by no means are we out of the wilderness yet,” Brown said today at a briefing.“We must be very prudent in how we spend public funds.”


      California has seen its fiscal health improve with higher income- and sales-tax levies Brown persuaded voters to approve in 2012, better-than-expected capital-gains revenue from profits in stocks and spending curbs under the governor last year.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Kansas under Brownback is bleeding money; much more than was projected even after it was clear that the promised surplus from tax cuts and reduced spending wouldn't materialize.
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
        Um, what?
        I wasn't aware that you changed your name from Jimmy to Sam, but it seems the point flew right over your head. Which is that it isn't that hard to find problems with any government. See Sam, I'm from California and have tons of family living out there still, so I tend to keep up on California politics. While you are talking about a 'surplus' and mindless defending anything with a 'D' next to their name, perhaps you can explain these things for everybody:

        1. Why do California schools perform so low compared to Kansas schools? Here is an article by the liberal Huffington Post which I used to get this metric. Kansas sits at number 5 and California at number 39. Using the metric that they are using here. I've also read other sources that say California ranks in the bottom 40, when it comes to math and reading scores. Perhaps he could use this 'surplus' to try to fix California's failing schools.

        2. Another great example is how California is trying to raise the tax burden on working families. You didn't hear that California wants to rid the state of the high state sales tax on gas and change it to a per mileage tax of .05 cents per mile you drive? Here, let me give you the figures for yourself:

        Current gas tax: 52.9 cents per gallon is the sales tax you pay on gas sold in California.
        Yearly average of miles driven in California: 13,636
        Total current tax on a vehicle with 20 MPG's using average miles driven per year: 360.67. Using 40 MPG: 180.33.
        Tax if per mileage tax goes though: 681.80

        Yep, don't you love how California is trying to double the tax rate for working families, to make it even harder for them to provide for their families (in a state that has one of the highest cost of livings in the country)? I also love how they assume (such as article here) that people will not change up their driving habits and this tax will not affect business or taxes in other sectors (such as state sales taxes). Don't you love political logic, in which they assume people don't change their behavior? Of course, I don't see how they plan on dealing with companies registering their vehicles in other states. I don't see a plan on how they are going to do something about California's massive tourist industry (Disneyland is just one example, of many, of a tourist trap) and the wear and tear it puts on the roads.

        Don't worry, thought I'm sure if you close your eyes and pretend all is well in the state of California. At least they have a 'surplus', while having under-performing schools and continuing the raise the tax burden, on working families. I'm sure you'll mindless defend them though because they are democrats and will totally ignore my entire point to begin with. Which is it really isn't all that hard to find issues in any state and its government. If you look long enough. I just happened to be versed in what goes on in Cali because I lived there for nearly 20 years and have family that still lives there (trust me, these things are hot topics for many of them). I haven't even got into the fact that California is currently having business packing up their bags and running for more tax friendly states (ask Toyota about that one), but again. I'm sure if you close your eyes and tap your heels together 3 times and wish for that stuff to go away. You can again pretend that all is great and wonderful in the state of California because democrats are such great governors and run a state as a well oiled machine. While republicans are horrible governors and run a state into the ground.
        Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-31-2014, 04:33 PM.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          I wasn't aware that you changed your name from Jimmy to Sam, but it seems the point flew right over your head. Which is that it isn't that hard to find problems with any government. See Sam, I'm from California and have tons of family living out there still, so I tend to keep up on California politics. While you are talking about a 'surplus' and mindless defending anything with a 'D' next to their name, perhaps you can explain these things for everybody:

          1. Why do California schools perform so low compared to Kansas schools? Here is an article by the liberal Huffington Post which I used to get this metric. Kansas sits at number 5 and California at number 39. Using the metric that they are using here. I've also read other sources that say California ranks in the bottom 40, when it comes to math and reading scores. Perhaps he could use this 'surplus' to try to fix California's failing schools.

          2. Another great example is how California is trying to raise the tax burden on working families. You didn't hear that California wants to rid the state of the high state sales tax on gas and change it to a per mileage tax of .05 cents per mile you drive? Here, let me give you the figures for yourself:

          Current gas tax: 52.9 cents per gallon is the sales tax you pay on gas sold in California.
          Yearly average of miles driven in California: 13,636
          Total current tax on a vehicle with 20 MPG's using average miles driven per year: 360.67. Using 40 MPG: 180.33.
          Tax if per mileage tax goes though: 681.80

          Yep, don't you love how California is trying to double the tax rate for working families, to make it even harder for them to provide for their families (in a state that has one of the highest cost of livings in the country)? I also love how they assume (such as article here) that people will not change up their driving habits and this tax will not affect business or taxes in other sectors (such as state sales taxes). Don't you love political logic, in which they assume people don't change their behavior? Of course, I don't see how they plan on dealing with companies registering their vehicles in other states. I don't see a plan on how they are going to do something about California's massive tourist industry (Disneyland is just one example, of many, of a tourist trap) and the wear and tear it puts on the roads.

          Don't worry, thought I'm sure if you close your eyes and pretend all is well in the state of California. At least they have a 'surplus', while having under-performing schools and continuing the raise the tax burden, on working families. I'm sure you'll mindless defend them though because they are democrats and will totally ignore my entire point to begin with. Which is it really isn't all that hard to find issues in any state and its government. If you look long enough. I just happened to be versed in what goes on in Cali because I lived there for nearly 20 years and have family that still lives there (trust me, these things are hot topics for many of them). I haven't even got into the fact that California is currently having business packing up their bags and running for more tax friendly states (ask Toyota about that one), but again. I'm sure if you close your eyes and tap your heels together 3 times and wish for that stuff to go away. You can again pretend that all is great and wonderful in the state of California because democrats are such great governors and run a state as a well oiled machine. While republicans are horrible governors and run a state into the ground.
          The problem with all of the above is that you tried to counter a pretty clear-cut example of how "Reaganomics" (Brownback's term) is failing Kansas by decimating its budget with a one-liner about California being "in the tank." One has to assume, given that comparison, that you want to compare Kansas' budget, as a product of Conservative Republican fiscal policy, with California's budget, as a result of Democratic Liberal fiscal policy.

          Because otherwise, it's not really that much of a useful comparison.
          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sam View Post
            The problem with all of the above is that you tried to counter a pretty clear-cut example of how "Reaganomics" (Brownback's term) is failing Kansas by decimating its budget with a one-liner about California being "in the tank." One has to assume, given that comparison, that you want to compare Kansas' budget, as a product of Conservative Republican fiscal policy, with California's budget, as a result of Democratic Liberal fiscal policy.

            Because otherwise, it's not really that much of a useful comparison.
            No, the problem is that Jimmy made a blanket statement and you made an assumption that I was talking about X, when I was actually talking about Y. Don't worry though, mindless defending anybody and everybody with a 'D' next to their name is a hobby of yours. While showing stupidity and ignorance, out in the open, is a hobby of mine. Failing schools, attempts to double the tax burden on working families, the the California government running good jobs out of the state into the arms of these 'failing states' that you talk about. Yep, all is well in the state of California, but you still haven't quite explained to this to me yet. Why do they need to double the tax burden on working families, if they have a surplus in the budget? You missed the point totally. It really isn't all that hard to find problems in any state. I happened to know of these three because I am from California and have remained versed in the state's politics (mainly getting an earful from those still living there).
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
              Not only do you seem to know zero about Adam Smith's Invisible Hand, you seem naïve about what is called corporate capitalism. Maybe you don't know about crony capitalism either.
              I'm well aware of the continuous collaboration between corporations and state power, and I also know Smith well enough to know that the invisible hand is often misunderstood as a means by which the market tends to balance out some of its worse effects over time. By no means should we assume that it always does so perfectly or even particularly well. The invisible hand of the market is not the hand of God.
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                I also know Smith well enough to know that the invisible hand is often misunderstood as a means by which the market tends to balance out some of its worse effects over time.
                Please, a specific example relevant to this thread.


                By no means should we assume that it always does so perfectly or even particularly well. The invisible hand of the market is not the hand of God.
                OK. The question here is really, is laissez faire the best policy even though people will screw up often?
                The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                  I'm well aware of the continuous collaboration between corporations and state power
                  But that and crony capitalism are big reasons why incomes are so unequal.
                  The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                  [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    If conservative economic policy works, then explain the Kansas experiment that Republican Gov. Brownback is in danger of losing his job over. Talking points don't help your argument in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary.
                    shuckeydarn, eh, Jimmy?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment

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