Physics professor endorces Intelligent Design

[phank]

Well, yes, if one begins with the assumption that there is a Creator, then the universe is a great reinforcement of that assumption. I don't think there is enough evidence to convince a skeptic, though...

Amen, brother. If you believe that cars are teleported to earth straight from heaven, the the existence of cars is an equally great reinforcement of that belief. What Shuny is doing is tracking back, seeing that cars come from factories, seeing that the factories assemble cars from subassemblies provided by multiple suppliers, seeing that ultimately the individual parts are machined from materials extracted from ores, oil, cows, etc. Nothing supernatural anywhere in the system.

The confusion arises over exactly where in all this the magic is inserted. Seer thinks the magic produces the end product (our universe) ex nihilo, whereas Shuny thinks the magic lies somewhere in the conditions that gave rise to our particular big bang. And of course, some of us are under the impression that insufficient information is NOT "evidence" of a designer or creator or other sort-of-human entity. That indeed, such entities are the wages of pride, the inability to admit ignorance.

[jordanriver]

Amen, brother. If you believe that cars are teleported to earth straight from heaven, the the existence of cars is an equally great reinforcement of that belief. What Shuny is doing is tracking back, seeing that cars come from factories, seeing that the factories assemble cars from subassemblies provided by multiple suppliers, seeing that ultimately the individual parts are machined from materials extracted from ores, oil, cows, etc. Nothing supernatural anywhere in the system.

The confusion arises over exactly where in all this the magic is inserted. Seer thinks the magic produces the end product (our universe) ex nihilo, whereas Shuny thinks the magic lies somewhere in the conditions that gave rise to our particular big bang. And of course, some of us are under the impression that insufficient information is NOT "evidence" of a designer or creator or other sort-of-human entity. That indeed, such entities are the wages of pride, the inability to admit ignorance.

Cars aren't natural phenomena? ?

[Kelp(p)]

Amen, brother. If you believe that cars are teleported to earth straight from heaven, the the existence of cars is an equally great reinforcement of that belief. What Shuny is doing is tracking back, seeing that cars come from factories, seeing that the factories assemble cars from subassemblies provided by multiple suppliers, seeing that ultimately the individual parts are machined from materials extracted from ores, oil, cows, etc. Nothing supernatural anywhere in the system.

I know you think I was being sarcastic, but I wasn't. To the extent I can, I believe that "The heavens declare the glory of God," in that a believer can see them and be moved to appreciate the wisdom and care that would go into such a design, if it was designed. But since human beings are not in any position to conceptually distinguish between a designed universe (in the non-ID sense) and an un-designed one, teleological evidence in the Enlightenment apologetics sense is not really possible by definition.

Divine intervention is not required if God is the underpinnings of the very fabric of reality.

[shunyadragon]

I know you think I was being sarcastic, but I wasn't. To the extent I can, I believe that "The heavens declare the glory of God," in that a believer can see them and be moved to appreciate the wisdom and care that would go into such a design, if it was designed. But since human beings are not in any position to conceptually distinguish between a designed universe (in the non-ID sense) and an un-designed one, teleological evidence in the Enlightenment apologetics sense is not really possible by definition.

Divine intervention is not required if God is the underpinnings of the very fabric of reality.

True