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To Quarantine or not to Quarantine Ebola Health Workers

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  • #16
    It matters not what the cause of the costs will be; rather that there will exist costs.

    To the extent there are costs to that tracing, a better adjective is "minimal" rather than significant.
    I disagree.

    I note that earlier you went so far as to suggest stripping Dr. Spencer of his medical credentials, and suggesting the same for Kaci Hickox. That's hysteria. And more, that's a clear indication that your thinking is not clear enough to generate a cogent response.

    Surprise me.
    I must say that the tone of your response and the misrepresentation is hardly surprising, old man. I suppose it is rather late for you to change.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
      It matters not what the cause of the costs will be; rather that there will exist costs.
      What matters are the costs themselves, and they're anything but equal. If you're confounded by arithmetic, that's just what I'd expect from a commie.

      I disagree.
      Shocked, shocked I say.

      I must say that the tone of your response and the misrepresentation is hardly surprising, old man. I suppose it is rather late for you to change.
      Mebbeso. But if this was a misrepresentation:

      Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
      I note that earlier you went so far as to suggest stripping Dr. Spencer of his medical credentials, and suggesting the same for Kaci Hickox. That's hysteria. And more, that's a clear indication that your thinking is not clear enough to generate a cogent response.
      Of this:

      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
      Strip all medical personnel who are as irresponsible as Craig Spencer of their right to practice; Kaci Hickox should also qualify.
      Then, on the bright side, at least one of us is young enough to change, commie.

      As ever, Jesse

      Comment


      • #18
        If the risks of spreading and catching ebola are so low as to not require any special precautions, then why is there an outbreak in West Africa in the first place?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          If the risks of spreading and catching ebola are so low as to not require any special precautions, then why is there an outbreak in West Africa in the first place?
          Transmission is a risk after a carrier becomes symptomatic: fatigue, fever, vomiting, and diarrhea.

          Cross-posting from the Ebola Czar thread:

          How Contagious Is the Virus? Updated Oct. 3
          Officials have emphasized that there is no risk of transmission from people who have been exposed to the virus but are not yet showing symptoms. Ebola spreads through direct contact with bodily fluids. A cough from a sick person could infect someone who has been sprayed with saliva. Specialists at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta have also found that the virus is present on a patient’s skin after symptoms develop, underlining how contagious the disease is once symptoms set in.

          According to the C.D.C., the virus can survive for a few hours on dry surfaces like doorknobs and countertops and can survive for several days in puddles or other collections of body fluid. Bleach solutions can kill it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
            Transmission is a risk after a carrier becomes symptomatic: fatigue, fever, vomiting, and diarrhea.

            Cross-posting from the Ebola Czar thread:

            How Contagious Is the Virus? Updated Oct. 3
            Officials have emphasized that there is no risk of transmission from people who have been exposed to the virus but are not yet showing symptoms. Ebola spreads through direct contact with bodily fluids. A cough from a sick person could infect someone who has been sprayed with saliva. Specialists at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta have also found that the virus is present on a patient’s skin after symptoms develop, underlining how contagious the disease is once symptoms set in.

            According to the C.D.C., the virus can survive for a few hours on dry surfaces like doorknobs and countertops and can survive for several days in puddles or other collections of body fluid. Bleach solutions can kill it.
            yeah, so if they can transmit it when they become symptomatic and the symptoms just resemble an ordinary flu then it doesn't take much to create an outbreak, just a few symptomatic individuals who don't realize they have ebola yet. That spreads to several other people who have no reason to believe they are at risk. They get a fever, start spreading it around to others and pretty soon you have an epidemic.

            Sounds like a quarantine period should be mandated to help prevent that from happening. It's not only health care workers who might know what to look for in "self-monitoring" that are a risk, it is anyone who might have been in an infected area, or come in contact with someone who was in an infected area. It might be an inconvenience to quarantine people from infected areas, but the cost to lives if it isn't contained is pretty high.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              yeah, so if they can transmit it when they become symptomatic and the symptoms just resemble an ordinary flu then it doesn't take much to create an outbreak, just a few symptomatic individuals who don't realize they have ebola yet. That spreads to several other people who have no reason to believe they are at risk. They get a fever, start spreading it around to others and pretty soon you have an epidemic.
              Awesome reasoning, other than one minor flaw: It doesn't match the facts. That's not what's happened.

              In the U.S., there have been zero, nil, nada, no transmissions outside a care facility. Those transmissions were two nurses treating the first victim without protective gear in contravention to previous described protocols, protocols which have since been strengthened.

              The remaining case of transmission outside the affected regions was also to a nurse, also treating a first victim in the country. None since. Most of the victims, even in the affected regions, have been primary care-givers to other victims, generally family members tending the sick.

              Sounds like a quarantine period should be mandated to help prevent that from happening. It's not only health care workers who might know what to look for in "self-monitoring" that are a risk, it is anyone who might have been in an infected area, or come in contact with someone who was in an infected area. It might be an inconvenience to quarantine people from infected areas, but the cost to lives if it isn't contained is pretty high.
              The cost in lives is already high (PDF), and projected to go much higher. The real way to address this latest ebola outbreak is to end the contagion where it's spreading, and that's just a few countries in West Africa: Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia. Quarantine measures that detract from that goal will increase the death toll.

              As ever, Jesse

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                Awesome reasoning, other than one minor flaw: It doesn't match the facts. That's not what's happened.

                In the U.S., there have been zero, nil, nada, no transmissions outside a care facility.
                Yet.




                The cost in lives is already high (PDF), and projected to go much higher. The real way to address this latest ebola outbreak is to end the contagion where it's spreading, and that's just a few countries in West Africa: Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia. Quarantine measures that detract from that goal will increase the death toll.

                As ever, Jesse
                How does quarantine measures detract from that goal? Especially with healthcare workers, who presumably were either hired to go there and help the infected, or volunteered their time. They could just consider the quarantine period as part of their time spent on the goal of eradicating ebola.

                and in just those few areas there are over 12,000 deaths and 5,000 ongoing cases of ebola. And it all started with a few cases. 70-80% death rate. I think that asking medical workers and travelers from infected areas be quarantined is not egregious or unwarranted.

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                • #23
                  I still stand with a full 21 day waiting period. If someone who is contagious brings the virus to a metropolitan area full of people, then it could spread quickly.

                  On a related note:
                  A US nurse who returned from treating Ebola patients in Sierra Leone has defied a quarantine order, leaving her house in Maine for a bike ride.

                  Kaci Hickox says isolation is unnecessary, as she has no symptoms and has tested negative for Ebola.

                  Maine officials have vowed to go to court to try to enforce the quarantine.

                  About 5,000 people have died of the disease in West Africa, but only nine patients have been treated for the virus on US soil. CNN
                  Looks like this nurse is pushing her boundaries and trying to make a point through her actions. How long has it been since she came back to the US again?

                  Also, looks like the Department of Defense is getting in on the quarantine by requiring all troops who come back to go through a 21 day quarantine, regardless of whether or not they have come into contact with ebola victims. Looks like the US government departments are at odds here.

                  By the way, in the same article, it states that, "The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has recommended that people at high risk of developing Ebola voluntarily quarantine themselves for 21 days, but it has stopped short of requiring one." Looks like they do think it's a good idea.
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by heartablaze View Post
                    Looks like this nurse is pushing her boundaries and trying to make a point through her actions. How long has it been since she came back to the US again?
                    Isn't she a employee of the CDC?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Update from CDC:
                      Droplet spread happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of another person. Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter) from one person to another.

                      A person might also get infected by touching a surface or object that has germs on it and then touching their mouth or nose. Droplet spread diseases include: plague, Ebola.
                      Of course, as they claim elsewhere that "flu droplets can travel up to 6 feet" there is no need for concern at all.

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