Black Men Speak Out!

[Psychic Missile]

Nor did I dismiss them because they have an unorthodox political ideology, I dismiss them only if they are, as I believe they are, phonies in a right wing propagandist video. If I am wrong about that, then i don't dismiss them at all, I just believe that they are ignorant in what they are saying. You admit the same above: "The Republican party, as awful as it is on race issues."

You're saying that these men are lying about their political views? What makes you think that?

[Cow Poke]

You're saying that these men are lying about their political views? What makes you think that?

Jimmy doesn't think that black people can be smart enough to decide for themselves that they don't want to "stay on the plantation". Therefore, they MUST Be lying or acting or "Uncle Toms".

[MaxVel]

A problem I see is that it seems that people on all sides are so hung up on identifying with race, and by race. So people from some racial groups see themselves as being disadvantaged simply because they are from their racial group; and see other people as being racist, or unfairly advantaged simply because they are from that racial group. People treat other people's opinions and thoughts as invalid for no other reason than that they're from the 'wrong' racial group, etc etc. So there are all sorts of ways that people who feel their racial group is oppressed or whatever attempt to 'get even', or redress the injustices, or promote their group so that it's above another group, or side with people from their racial group merely because they're of the same race.

The problem is that all this is just buying into the same way of looking at people that is a major part of the problem. Instead of seeing someone else simply as a person, we evaluate them on the basis of their race. And many people self-identify with their racial group, and this just helps perpetuate the problems. So I think that concepts like 'I'm proud to be black' are actually not helping to solve racial problems, because they're still part of that failed paradigm - of identifying and valuing people by their race, and treating them differently because of their race, instead of their behaviour, or actions, or character. The same pretty much goes for things like affirmative action programs where people are given opportunities that they haven't earned on the merits of their actions or abilities, but on their race. I think as much as these kinds of programs might help 'lift' people out of poverty or inequity, they also create a sense of entitlement based on race - 'I deserve this special (and unequal) treatment, because I'm X race', which means that people remain stuck in the same mindset that is one of the roots of racial problems.

I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself very well here. What I think is happening is people are replacing one kind of '-ism' with another kind of '-ism', no better than the previous one. The same kind of thing seems to be going on in the more extreme forms of feminism, 'gay rights', and 'social justice'. It's not people pushing for a world without discrimination or injustice, but rather one where they - not others- are the ones on top. Bleh.

[Sparko]

So, whats your point Sparko, that there are disrespectful thugs out there? No kidding!

He is a black republican. He is being harassed by democrats and liberals because of that. You made the claim that the other guys in the video were fakes. You can look this guy up. He is real. He is not an actor. The people who have been harassing him are acting just like you do, claiming he is some sort of "race-traitor" or something just because he is a republican and he is black, as if black people are not allowed to be conservative or republicans. They just took it further than you and issued him death threats and robbed his church.

So yes, there are disrespectful thugs out there, and you are one of them. If a black person wants to be a republican, that doesn't make him some sort of traitor, or a fake, or stupid.

[Cow Poke]

A problem I see is that it seems that people on all sides are so hung up on identifying with race, and by race. So people from some racial groups see themselves as being disadvantaged simply because they are from their racial group; and see other people as being racist, or unfairly advantaged simply because they are from that racial group. People treat other people's opinions and thoughts as invalid for no other reason than that they're from the 'wrong' racial group, etc etc. So there are all sorts of ways that people who feel their racial group is oppressed or whatever attempt to 'get even', or redress the injustices, or promote their group so that it's above another group, or side with people from their racial group merely because they're of the same race.

The problem is that all this is just buying into the same way of looking at people that is a major part of the problem. Instead of seeing someone else simply as a person, we evaluate them on the basis of their race. And many people self-identify with their racial group, and this just helps perpetuate the problems. So I think that concepts like 'I'm proud to be black' are actually not helping to solve racial problems, because they're still part of that failed paradigm - of identifying and valuing people by their race, and treating them differently because of their race, instead of their behaviour, or actions, or character. The same pretty much goes for things like affirmative action programs where people are given opportunities that they haven't earned on the merits of their actions or abilities, but on their race. I think as much as these kinds of programs might help 'lift' people out of poverty or inequity, they also create a sense of entitlement based on race - 'I deserve this special (and unequal) treatment, because I'm X race', which means that people remain stuck in the same mindset that is one of the roots of racial problems.

I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself very well here. What I think is happening is people are replacing one kind of '-ism' with another kind of '-ism', no better than the previous one. The same kind of thing seems to be going on in the more extreme forms of feminism, 'gay rights', and 'social justice'. It's not people pushing for a world without discrimination or injustice, but rather one where they - not others- are the ones on top. Bleh.

Maybe this is what you're trying to say....

[Cow Poke]

So yes, there are disrespectful thugs out there, and you are one of them. If a black person wants to be a republican, that doesn't make him some sort of traitor, or a fake, or stupid.

It makes him.... FREE!!!!!!

[Psychic Missile]

So, should 'lead actor' go to a person from a particular race or ethnic group? Or should it go to the person best qualified to fit the role?

Should white people sue the NBA because there are more black players than white? Is it just about the NUMBERS?

It should go to the person best qualified to fit the role. That means the number of black leads should be about equal to the percentage of black people in the US population. It also means characters who are people of color should not be cast with white actors.

[Cow Poke]

It should go to the person best qualified to fit the role.

Exactly!

That means the number of black leads should be about equal to the percentage of black people in the US population.

This is where you err greatly. If a movie is about President Johnson, would a black man be the best choice to play him? Did you see the movie Tuskegee Airmen? Did a bunch of white men play the part of those airmen? That would be dumb.

It also means characters who are people of color should not be cast with white actors.

That's confusing, but I think you're maybe saying the same thing, kinda --- a "character" is the person in the movie played by a real person (an actor). You might want to try that last line again.

Now, Henry Ford, for example -- it would be quite distracting to show him portrayed by James Earl Jones, although James Earl Jones is, in my opinion, an incredible actor. (LOVED him in Clancy movies!)

[Psychic Missile]

every one of those people were lead actors in one film or another (or many) so I have no idea what you are thinking. And that is just a partial list.

There are usually only a few of any race of actors as leads in films and I would say that blacks are among the top right along with white actors. You don't see that many hispanic or asian or arab lead actors though.

I am surprised you think hollywood is so racist, considering as a group they are more liberal than most of the country, probably including even you.

It's not a question of being the lead in one movie. It's a question of who Hollywood goes to for lead actors. Hollywood is actually quite conservative. They have major problems with stereotyping minorities or brushing off minorities. Writing a strong gay character, for example, is still difficult for them.

[Cow Poke]

It's not a question of being the lead in one movie. It's a question of who Hollywood goes to for lead actors.

Well, yeah, they try to cast somebody who is "believable" as a person representing the character they are portraying.

Hollywood is actually quite conservative.

Ummmm..... say again?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...is_hollywoo_1/

They have major problems with stereotyping minorities or brushing off minorities. Writing a strong gay character, for example, is still difficult for them.

This isn't 1950.

[Zymologist]

It's not a question of being the lead in one movie. It's a question of who Hollywood goes to for lead actors. Hollywood is actually quite conservative. They have major problems with stereotyping minorities or brushing off minorities. Writing a strong gay character, for example, is still difficult for them.

Um...are you sure?

[Cow Poke]

Um...are you sure?

He can be both sure AND wrong!



ETA I had to delete my link of quotes by hollywood biggies because I noticed after the fact that the F bomb was pretty prevalent in that.

Suffice it to say that they don't even PRETEND to be conservative!

[Zymologist]

PM almost seems to be saying, "Hollywood is conservative, and we know this because of how racist they are."

[MaxVel]

It should go to the person best qualified to fit the role. That means the number of black leads should be about equal to the percentage of black people in the US population. It also means characters who are people of color should not be cast with white actors.

You're making an assumption that each racial group has an equal spread of abilities in all areas... In this case you're assuming that the percentage of black people who currently are good actors is the same as the percentage of white people who currently are good actors.

I think this is a dubious assumption, given that we see significant differences in other areas - for example professional sports such as basketball, American football, and boxing. The percentage of top performers in those sports is not the same between black and other racial groups, because (among other reasons) a higher percentage of black people are athletically gifted.

There may be all sorts of reasons why percentages for all sorts of abilities are different between racial groups, including some reasons which should be addressed, such as lack of opportunity. But equality does not mean 'everyone gets the same benefits and rewards in society , no matter how talented, hard-working, or qualified they are - or aren't.'

[Zymologist]

You're making an assumption that each racial group has an equal spread of abilities in all areas... In this case you're assuming that the percentage of black people who currently are good actors is the same as the percentage of white people who currently are good actors.

I think this is a dubious assumption, given that we see significant differences in other areas - for example professional sports such as basketball, American football, and boxing. The percentage of top performers in those sports is not the same between black and other racial groups, because (among other reasons) a higher percentage of black people are athletically gifted.

There may be all sorts of reasons why percentages for all sorts of abilities are different between racial groups, including some reasons which should be addressed, such as lack of opportunity. But equality does not mean 'everyone gets the same benefits and rewards in society , no matter how talented, hard-working, or qualified they are - or aren't.'

FWIW, when I try to think of my favorite actors, there aren't really any white guys that even come to mind. This is pretty irrelevant, though.