Black Men Speak Out!

[Sparko]

No, I did not say that they are lying, what I said is to consider the source. What I said is that they are either paid political hacks, i.e. lying in a right wing propagandist produced video, or, and "or" is the operative word, they are ignorant as to the political truth.

OR maybe you are the one ignorant as to the political truth.

[fm93]

And I know it is an historical tradition among race baiters, to see racism hiding behind every tree and to see any and all actions, as being racist. I also wasn't aware that being 'white' was a bad thing. I happen to be rather light toned, but not all of my ancestors were, but so what? I don't obsess over people's race all day. What made you so obsessed over the race of others, that you spend your days watching TV sitcoms and calling them racist because they don't show enough people of different colors? To be so obsessed with such trivial matters, seems to cause you endless amounts of problems. How sad...

Please. For once, just earnestly try to understand where I and others are coming from. Growing up, we spent about 9-10 hours of the 24-hour day asleep. During our 14-15 hours of consciousness, we spent about seven of those with our family and we got a good long look at ourselves in the mirror every morning, thereby becoming intimately familiar with what we and our relatives looked like, and then took a bus to school, where for eight hours each day--more time than we spent being awake with our families--we sat in a classroom or ran around in a playground in which the vast majority of people around us looked nothing like us. At the end of the school day, when parents picked everyone up at daycare or at the bus stop, we realized that the people with lighter skin tones never had to go through his familiar-to-unfamiliar transition each day; instead, they simply went from being completely surrounded with people who looked like them to being mostly surrounded with people who looked like them. We had to practice writing our first and last names over and over for handwriting exercises, and when the teacher hung up everyone's work, we realized that our last names looked starkly different from everyone else's, and so did the others, because our last names (and for some of us, our first names) tended to elicit snickers and smirks when uttered by us or by the teacher. Perhaps more starkly, it eventually caught our attention that the Smiths and Browns and Jones and Quinns and Martins in the class never elicited such snickers and smirks--and we began to sense that there was a concept called "normal" that pervaded their names while always remaining out of our reach. When we opened our bags and Tupperwares at lunch time, we also began to notice that the sight of the food that our parents had packed for us, which we'd always thought was mundane yet delicious in the comfort of our homes, that stuff that we'd always been eating, was curiously stripped of this sense once we came to school, and instead also elicited snickers and smirks--yet the lunches of the others were, again, protected by that mysterious concept called "normal."

As we grew up and began to mentally and athletically immerse ourselves in academic subjects and sports, we started to notice that mysterious, elusive "normal" concept rear its odd head in those areas as well. We noticed that those of us who identified as Asian tended to be known for doing well in school, and that those of us who identified as "black" were generally not known for it; consequently, when an Asian person did poorly or a black person ranked towards the top of the class, we noticed that those occurrences tended to elicit murmurs of surprise, as if it was a glitch contrary to the programmed instructions of some machine. The "normal" eluded us when that happened. Yet as time went on, we also noticed something else--when people with lighter skin did poorly in school, nary a single eyebrow was raised in surprise, and the same thing occurred when a person with light skin excelled in school. And so we came to discover that this "normal" concept covered light-skinned people in such a way that they were viewed as non-monolithic, that the entire range of human experience and achievement applied to them, that it was understood that they were all simply individuals who could either fail or excel--not like us, who tended to be seen as representatives of our race. The "normal" didn't cover us.

This applied to specific academic subjects as well. We learned in social studies that anyone who was born and raised in America is considered an American citizen, and we realized that by definition, we were all Americans. But then, when teachers taught us about classifications of nationality, we were told to hyphenate that word. Instead of merely listing ourselves as "American," people who looked like me had to write "Asian-American," and people with dark skin tones had to write "African-American." Meanwhile, the people with light skin tones simply got to write down "American." And so we came to realize that we weren't fully considered to be part of this country, that instead we had to clarify that our ancestors ultimately came from somewhere else--yet the white people, whose ancestors ALSO came from elsewhere, were spared from that caveat. They could simply consider themselves American due to being born and raised here, while we couldn't.

And finally, there occasionally came times when we were given opportunities to temporarily escape everyday life. During spring breaks or summer vacations, our parents took us to places like New York City, where no matter what we looked like, we wandered around the city and couldn't help but see plenty of people who looked like us. Literally every street corner featured Asian people performing acrobatic tricks on the sidewalk or heading to some quaint authentic Chinese restaurant for dinner, and black people wearing oversized baseball caps and T-shirts chatting loudly on their cellphones or decked in crisp business attire and strolling into a sleek and majestic skyscraper for work, and Hispanic mothers chiding their children to hurry as they chased down a taxi or turned a corner. This diversity was part of that which gave the city its liveliness and identity. It was a new, more interesting presentation of "normal." Then we returned home for the new school year, and after the school day ended, we turned on the TV to watch shows and escape the end of a long day. One of those shows was "Friends," which we learned was set in New York City--yet that diversity we remembered experiencing, that which had given the place its life and identity, was gone. And it isn't difficult to think "The people who were cut out...are those who look like me." That new normal had been overshadowed by the old normal.

So you see, while I wouldn't say that we "obsess" over race, it is nevertheless an important aspect of our lives, something that we often can't help but think about in some manner--because it's a fundamental part of who we are. It doesn't define us as individuals, but to fully understand and explain our identity in this society, we can never truly ignore it as long as inequality and injustice exists...and we are highly conditioned to detect such things, because they, along with race in general, are a part of our life experience. So it is dismissive, close-minded and deeply insulting when you ignore our words and respond with terms like "race-baiter" or "playing the race card," as if that which has shaped our very lives and identities in this country is merely some magic trick or rhetorical ploy--as if it's something trivial and non-serious. We could be wrong or over-emphasizing an issue, but we never make claims unless we genuinely think that the problem is real and significant.

[JimL]

He is a black republican.

Yeah, so what?

He is being harassed by democrats and liberals because of that.

Again, so what?

You made the claim that the other guys in the video were fakes.

No, I didn't make the claim. I said consider the source, its a good possibility.

You can look this guy up. He is real. He is not an actor.

Thats great, and I made no argument about this gentleman, did I? Can you look up the other 4 in the right wing video to see if they are real or actors?

The people who have been harassing him are acting just like you do, claiming he is some sort of "race-traitor" or something just because he is a republican and he is black, as if black people are not allowed to be conservative or republicans. They just took it further than you and issued him death threats and robbed his church.

Yeah, except for the fact that I have not harassed anyone, including him, nor have I questioned the genuiness of his beliefs. I'm well aware of the fact that blacks, just like whites, can be wrong in their beliefs.

So yes, there are disrespectful thugs out there, and you are one of them. If a black person wants to be a republican, that doesn't make him some sort of traitor, or a fake, or stupid.

Nor is that my argument, so your retort is just stupid.

[Sparko]

Square_peg, you can live your life feeling inferior and like a victim or move on. It's up to you how you interpret the world.

I grew up fat (still am) and I was ostracized because of that. Skin color isn't the only reason kids can be cruel to each other. They tend to be equal opportunity haters in middle and high school. If you are different in any way, they want nothing to do with you. If you are fat, a geek, skinny, ugly, wear braces, are not athletic, you get shunned by the "cool" kids and even the "normal" kids. It isn't merely skin color.

Get over it. You are an adult now.

[Cow Poke]

Dear Jimmy,

One of the well known side affects of smoking weed is memmory loss.

You made the claim that the other guys in the video were fakes.

No, I didn't make the claim. I said consider the source, its a good possibility.

AND, back to the archives, earlier in this thread.....

Well, they are either well paid liars, actors, uncle Toms, or they are just ignorant republicans.

Your friend,
CP

[JimL]

Dear Jimmy,

One of the well known side affects of smoking weed is memmory loss.




AND, back to the archives, earlier in this thread.....





Your friend,
CP

Weed can also affect ones reading comprehension CP. Put the joint down and read it again. My opinion that they are either fakes "or" ignorants, is not a claim that they are fakes.

[Cow Poke]

Weed can also affect ones reading comprehension CP. Put the joint down and read it again. My opinion that they are either fakes "or" ignorants, is not a claim that they are fakes.

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy....

Why so hostile?

So, what you're REALLY saying is that these black people can't be REAL black people -- because everybody knows that REAL black people vote Dummycrat, eh?

Is that what you're saying?

Your friend,
CP

[Cow Poke]

Weed can also affect ones reading comprehension CP. Put the joint down and read it again. My opinion that they are either fakes "or" ignorants, is not a claim that they are fakes.

No, Jimmy, you started off with "well paid liars, actors, uncle Toms" THEN you said "or they are just ignorant republicans". You did NOT start with "fakes".

You went FIRST to liars.

You own it, Jimmy.



Now, let's see your kabuki dance!

[fm93]

Square_peg, you can live your life feeling inferior and like a victim or move on. It's up to you how you interpret the world.

I don't feel inferior or like a victim. I just pointed out that those of us who are minorities are sometimes viewed and treated unequally.

I grew up fat (still am) and I was ostracized because of that. Skin color isn't the only reason kids can be cruel to each other. They tend to be equal opportunity haters in middle and high school. If you are different in any way, they want nothing to do with you. If you are fat, a geek, skinny, ugly, wear braces, are not athletic, you get shunned by the "cool" kids and even the "normal" kids. It isn't merely skin color.

I didn't say anything about being ostracized or other kids "not wanting anything to do with us." With maybe one or two exceptions in my entire life, I've never been bullied or personally mistreated due to my race. But the lack of racially-influenced bullying doesn't mean that all is well. I'm just explaining that society overall doesn't view us in the same way in which white people are viewed, which several examples illustrate.

Besides, the fact remains that people of any race in America can be ostracized for being fat or geeky or weak or unattractive, but white Americans generally haven't been ostracized for their race. Not so for minorities. Hence, this itself constitutes a sort of inequality.

Get over it. You are an adult now.

Get over what? I'm not personally angry at society. I just want to address and hopefully somehow get to correct the inequality.

[Cow Poke]

I just want to address and hopefully somehow get to correct the inequality.

What would that look like, SP?

[Sparko]

I don't feel inferior or like a victim. I just pointed out that those of us who are minorities are sometimes viewed and treated unequally.


I didn't say anything about being ostracized or other kids "not wanting anything to do with us." With maybe one or two exceptions in my entire life, I've never been bullied or personally mistreated due to my race. But the lack of racially-influenced bullying doesn't mean that all is well. I'm just explaining that society overall doesn't view us in the same way in which white people are viewed, which several examples illustrate.

Besides, the fact remains that people of any race in America can be ostracized for being fat or geeky or weak or unattractive, but white Americans generally haven't been ostracized for their race. Not so for minorities. Hence, this itself constitutes a sort of inequality.


Get over what? I'm not personally angry at society. I just want to address and hopefully somehow get to correct the inequality.

and if I grew up in Japan, I would be the odd man out and treated differently there because of my race. Or in India, or in Africa, etc. White people don't have the market cornered on what you call "racism". In fact from what I hear Japanese are very snobbish about their race and consider other races as not as civilized as them.


Again, it is mostly kids grouping together to create cliques and treating anyone different as abnormal. It happens everywhere and the color of someone's skin is just one of the many parameters they will use to judge you as different.

[Jedidiah]

There is a racial problem in this nation. There is a racial problem in most of the world. There always will be.

I grew up in a pretty varied community. Whites were probably in the majority but I do not recall. Hispanics, known as Mexicans in those days (by everyone - themselves included) and blacks were plentiful. DB can probably tell me what it is like today. I had a buddy I hung out with in elementary school days, he was a negro (that was the accepted term back then). When we got into Jr. High he decided it was better to hang with the other black guys. I was surprised. I was naive enough to think that racial prejudice was something from the past that did not have any real presence in today's (1950s - yeah I was naive) world. It never occurred to me to mention the race of my friends when I spoke of them.

I came home from school one day, Jr. High if I recall correctly, to hear my folks talking of selling our house and moving to a different neighborhood - the blacks were moving in. I gave them a loud piece of my mind and pointed out the hypocrisy of that action. They must have been convicted since there were no repercussions to me, and we never did move. My parents live in that same house today.

I think that nationally the racial issue is greater as a result of the presidency of Obama. Now we hear about the race of every criminal out there - unless it is Arabic, that would not be PC. I do not have any black friends today, though I have a few acquaintances of "color." I have a granddaughter who is half black and she appears to be completely accepted by her peers. What is the real situation? I do not claim to know. I do know that the media, the president, race baiters and such have made things worse, not better.

What ever happened to the dream of a color blind society. Racism is disgusting.

[JimL]

No, Jimmy, you started off with "well paid liars, actors, uncle Toms" THEN you said "or they are just ignorant republicans". You did NOT start with "fakes".

I was only joking of course, but now CP I'm beginning to think that maybe you have been hitting the bong a little to much. As anyone can see, I did not start out with "well paid liars" as you assert. I started out with "they are either" i.e. they are either well paid liars, or fakes if you will, or, as in either or, they are just ignorant republicans. Ignorant because they don't know what they are talking about if they believe that democratic policies are purposed to keep them down, or that republican policies are puposed to help them. Its just the opposite, and always has been. Trickle down does not work, its not a trickle its a trick, and the corporate backed republican party utilizes it to keep all the wealth at the top.

You went FIRST to liars.

No, I went first to "either or." So put down the pipe and go back and try real hard to comprehend the difference.

You own it, Jimmy.

Unabashedly!

Now, let's see your kabuki dance!

Now, lets see yours!

[Jedidiah]

Back peddle faster.

[Cow Poke]

I was only joking of course,