Christianity, Wicca, and Truth

[Dracula Girl]

Boxed words are not mine.

There's only really one rule for wicca and that is "Do what ye will, as long it harms none."

Anything that separates you from God or is against His will is harmful to at least one, yourself. It is therefore His will that we should seek first. To do otherwise denies God’s nature as a loving God. (1) If God really loves us, then He will want what is best for us. Consider your own nature? Is what you have wanted always been the best in the long run? Or others. If we are separated from God how can that be good for us? We can keep ourselves from knowing the God who sent His son to die for us, the God who loves us and wants what is good for us. We live in a corrupt world and have a sinful nature. (2) Sin brings death, at least spiritual death. God gives life. Sooner or later our nature is going to take us away from the life that God has for us. If we just do our will, it will eventually hurt others.

If we are really seeking God’s will, then out of the new nature that He gives us as His children will flow love. We love because He first loved us. Love is what really makes us care about not harming others. It then makes us care about the good of our fellow people. Without love like we learn from God, when pressed it is each man for himself. Sure someone like that may seem good and speak and act like they care, but it’s not that love. It’s just what makes them look good or feel good, and yes doing something good for someone else can make a person feel good, but it’s not the same selfless love. People waffle: God is faithful. (3) God is more faithful and selfless than any one else can be. His glory shines in His power and strength of love for us. I would rather follow that than my own foolish self. I by myself am a fool and if not for the love of God, I would not be who and where I am today.

Wiccans believe that there is a God and a Godess and both are worshipped.

Deuteronomy 5:7 You shall have no other gods before Me.

They do not believe in Satan as how can there be any absolute evil?

How can you not believe there is absolute evil? We have terrorism, poverty, literal enslavement even of children! There are places where women are kidnapped and put on window display in there underwear as sex slaves. People starve! There are genocides! Thousands and millions of people dying. There have people in the past who had child sacrifice. There’s mass oppression, people enslaved to sin like drugs and porn. Is that only half bad, half good? It’s a miracle when God changes any of the lives caught up in that. Absolute evil exists somehow and so does good. God is behind good. Can Satan not be behind evil?

We are spiritual as well as physical beings. Because of our physical nature, we don’t usually go around seeing with our eyes the things of spirits. Satan is a liar. (4) He tries to deceive us in as couple of ways. 1. Satan as the angel of light. He tries to get people to think that he is good, that is the way and the truth. This is not true. Satan wants to separate us from God because he is in a battle for us. Christ is the only way to life. If we are truly saved, then he loses out of us and he doesn’t want that. God creates, Satan destroys. God will work in us so that we are freed from the bondages of sin. Satan temps us away from God. 2. He tries to make people think that he and hell are not real. If he is not real, then there is only God and everything is good. It can be like it doesn’t matter what you do, there is no hell. You’ll go to heaven. But this isn’t true because heaven comes with salvation and what Jesus went through for us and what sin is loses its meaning. What could Christ have saved us from if there was no hell and nothing evil? Ourselves? 3. This world is all there is. The lie that this world that we see with our physical eyes is all there is. He likes people to stay blind to spiritual truths because then they won’t even think about seriously believing that Christ is the way and he is the enemy. 4. Scare us into thinking that only darkness is the spiritual reality or make us not believe God.

Wiccans believe that everything you do to others is brought back to you threefold so if you do something bad to someone you will be punished for it and if you do something good you will be blessed. Is that not a good way to live?

Many times it doesn’t work that way. In physical life here on earth, the greatest example of this is Christ. Though what He did was only what was good and loving, He suffered death for us on the cross. He went to hell and he did not sin. We sinners who deserve hell, who have grieved God, we are offered the chance to heaven. The message of salvation isn’t about rewards for good and punishments for wrongs, it’s about grace-what we don’t deserve. Every mean or immoral thought, every lie, every hurtful word, every other wrong thing that we have done-we can not make up for that. In the light of who God is, we all deserve death and hell, but by the simple act of faith to accept Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior, we can have eternal life in heaven. Not only that, before we leave this earth, we can have a relationship with a creator who loves us so much that He send His son to die for us. Now this is a way to live.

As Christians, the world will not always see the blessings that God gives us. Our treasure is not of the world. Around the world, there are Christians who are persecuted. Even kind non-Christians can suffer for doing good. The world does not love the things of God but loves the things of this world. There are places where evil is rewarded and good is punished. The reward or those who follow the Lord is His eternal care, the rewards He has for us in heaven and pleasure of a Heavenly Father who delights in His children. We live in view of eternity great reward is already gained in salvation. Christ gave us two commands to follow. "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and "your neighbor as yourself." (5)

(1)

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

(1)

Romans 5:8

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

(1)

1 John 4:18-20

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19We love Him because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

(2)

Romans 3:22-23

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

(2)

Isaiah 59:2

But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.

(3)

{Psalm 89:8-9

O LORD God of hosts,
Who is mighty like You, O LORD?
Your faithfulness also surrounds You.
9You rule the raging of the sea;
When its waves rise, You still them.

(3)

1 John 1:6-10

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

(4)

Revelation 12:9

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

(4)

2 Corinthians 11:14-15

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

(5)

Luke 10:26-28

He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" 27So he answered and said, ""You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and "your neighbor as yourself."28And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

1 John 3:10-23

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
13Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother[3] abides in death. 15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19And by this we know[4] that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us[5] commandment.

[Meh_Gerbil]

I think this is one thing that keeps me in Christianity.

This Wiccan nonsense annoys me, as does any other philosophy, when it is composed entirely of truisms or little bumper sticker statements that sound good but don't have the substance to get one through a really rough time.

It sounds good to 'do no harm' but it is so divorced from reality as to be little more than an admonition one might give to pre-school kids on a playground. I know it sounds like I endorse cruelity when I dog out such a nice sounding statement but to me it sounds like spiritual manipulation.

The 'three times payback' is annoying as well. Who or what controls that equation? How exactly did Hitler get his 3X paypack? How do you get 3X payback for doing things that are as evil are evil can get? Again, another truism that sounds good -- imagine flowers people, visual world peace -- but offers us NO tread for the real world.

Now Christianity has some of those saying as well, but they are fueled by the blood of the Son of G_d who came here in a body and was beaten and nailed to a cross and he DIED for it.

For some reason, I Corinthians 13 -- which is a wonderful poem about love -- becomes a startling instance of gritty flesh and blood reality because it is more than flowery nicities -- the goodness is covered in dirt an blood. It is real, in your face, and penetrates ones heart and soul.

Without the blood, the nice saying are just that.

[Berean Todd]

I think this is one thing that keeps me in Christianity.

This Wiccan nonsense annoys me, as does any other philosophy, when it is composed entirely of truisms or little bumper sticker statements that sound good but don't have the substance to get one through a really rough time.

It sounds good to 'do no harm' but it is so divorced from reality as to be little more than an admonition one might give to pre-school kids on a playground. I know it sounds like I endorse cruelity when I dog out such a nice sounding statement but to me it sounds like spiritual manipulation.

The 'three times payback' is annoying as well. Who or what controls that equation? How exactly did Hitler get his 3X paypack? How do you get 3X payback for doing things that are as evil are evil can get? Again, another truism that sounds good -- imagine flowers people, visual world peace -- but offers us NO tread for the real world.

Now Christianity has some of those saying as well, but they are fueled by the blood of the Son of G_d who came here in a body and was beaten and nailed to a cross and he DIED for it.

For some reason, I Corinthians 13 -- which is a wonderful poem about love -- becomes a startling instance of gritty flesh and blood reality because it is more than flowery nicities -- the goodness is covered in dirt an blood. It is real, in your face, and penetrates ones heart and soul.

Without the blood, the nice saying are just that.

Excellent post Mad Gerbil, can't add a whole lot to that, very well put!

[technomage]

Greetings, Sheherazade,

I would like to discuss the issues that you bring up with you, the Mad Gerbil, and anyone else who cares to participate, but this is a "Christians Only" forum. Would you consider requesting one of the moderators to move this thread to a forum where all may post?

If you do not wish to, I certainly will respect your decision, but I do hope you will consider my invitation.

Justin

[Dee Dee Warren]

Justin you may start a new thread yourself. I think the idea was that the thread starter wanted to discuss amongst Christians, but you are free to quote from the OP and start a new thread in Comp Rel or in General Theistics (if you want atheists to participate too)

[technomage]

Justin you may start a new thread yourself. I think the idea was that the thread starter wanted to discuss amongst Christians, but you are free to quote from the OP and start a new thread in Comp Rel or in General Theistics (if you want atheists to participate too)

Ah, thank you.

Sheherazade and Mad Gerbil, the new thread can be found here:

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41136

The thee of you, or anyone else who wishes to participate, are more than welcome.

Justin

[greywolf]

wicca is also a religion just like christianity in many ways we just have a different way of thinking in things