Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Ontological Argument?
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo, I'm asking you - how can the laws of logic be universal and immutable in your view. You don't have to answer me with a question.
The laws of logic are immutable and universal axiomatically. They define what we mean when we say that something "is.""[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostBecause I do not think that the mere ability to hold a concept is a good definition for that concept's existence. Literally everything which can be thought to exist would actually exist.. On Platonism, if I can conceptualize the world tree, Yggdrasil, then that conception is only possible because some perfect abstract of Yggdrasil actually exists.
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThe laws of logic are immutable and universal axiomatically. They define what we mean when we say that something "is."Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOk, but how can you conclude that they immutable and universal from your limited experience? An axiom is a self-evident truth, how is it self-evident that the laws of logic are immutable and universal - based on our finite understanding?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThey are an assumption based upon common agreement with the implicit recognition that they have not been proven.Last edited by seer; 10-31-2014, 11:32 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell I can see why we would assume that the laws of logic work in our limited experience, but not why we can assume that they are immutable and universal. Wouldn't the Realist or Theist be in a better position to make that claim? Just thinking out loud."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostWhy would they be? Whether a person is a Platonist or a nominalist, the universality and immutability of the laws of logic are still axiomatic.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJumping off another thread - I'm not sure where the fault in the Ontological Argument is:
When you realise this you will quickly discover that all sorts of theological problems are solved.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostTherefore your God is you. You and God are precisely what your brain is doing.
When you realise this you will quickly discover that all sorts of theological problems are solved.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI guess I'm trying to plumb your beliefs. In the other thread you said you believe in actual infinities. Would a Nominalist believe in actual infinities? I thought numbers and such were not real."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by seer View PostHow unoriginal...“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostWhen I say that I believe in "actual infinities," I mean that I believe infinity is a quantity which can describe an actual set of entities. For example, if I said that I believe in "actual fives," I mean that I believe it is actually possible to have a set of five real objects. I do not mean that five exists as an entity unto itself. Similarly, when I say that I believe in "actual infinities," I mean that I believe it is actually possible to have an infinite set of real objects.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.” – Charles Bukowski“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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