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Can a genuine Christian be demonized?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As I Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."
    well "demonized" in English usually means to make someone or their actions to look evil as in "Obama keeps demonizing Bush"

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As a Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."
      I won't start a discussion about the nature and requirement of salvation. Suffice it to say I was clarifying my position as the OP was formulated in an ambiguous way, which has been pointed out by several people now.

      Furthermore I do believe its possible for Christians to become possessed as well, though depending on the person and the circumstances this might be judged to be more or less improbable. As for demons torturing people, the Saints and the mystics have reported that occuring for centuries and I see no particular reason to doubt what they say. Several Christians I know, even some on this forum, have experienced demonic attacks.

      They're supernatural beings of incredible power (though perhaps kept in check by something), and unimaginable intellect and a pure hatred of God and anything remotely similar to God. If anything I think demons would be more busy attacking Christians and in particular Catholics, (if they can) than with non-Christians.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
        I won't start a discussion about the nature and requirement of salvation. Suffice it to say I was clarifying my position as the OP was formulated in an ambiguous way, which has been pointed out by several people now.

        Furthermore I do believe its possible for Christians to become possessed as well, though depending on the person and the circumstances this might be judged to be more or less improbable. As for demons torturing people, the Saints and the mystics have reported that occuring for centuries and I see no particular reason to doubt what they say. Several Christians I know, even some on this forum, have experienced demonic attacks.

        They're supernatural beings of incredible power (though perhaps kept in check by something), and unimaginable intellect and a pure hatred of God and anything remotely similar to God. If anything I think demons would be more busy attacking Christians and in particular Catholics, (if they can) than with non-Christians.
        Curious, why in particular Catholics?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As a Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."
          If you have to make up a new meaning for a word, then you're not translating it correctly. Why should I place any stock in what Dr. Murphy says?
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
            My wife when she was in College was "trained" in a spiritual warfare that included issues such as this. She had sessions with several people she knew to be Christian that would qualify as "Demonized". They were not possessed like what most would normally consider as demon possessed (weird voices, levitating, that kind of stuff that is considered to be normal proof of possession). But some of those sessions were pretty scary according to her...
            How would you characterize the difference between a sincere professing nominal Christian and a genuine Christian?

            Jesus said to Saul, ". . . To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me." (Acts 26:18.)

            From this I personally conclude non-Christians and nominal Christians regardless of sect or cult, are under the oppression of Satan and can be demonized. The difference between doing something (baptism, verbal confession, sinners prary, giving one's life, etc) in order to be saved and receiving Christ (John 1:12, 13; John 3:16; 1 John 5:1, 12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5).
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              Curious, why in particular Catholics?
              I'm a Catholic, we consider the Catholic Church to be The Church. I don't think there's anything Satan hates more on earth than The Church. Christian brothers and sisters outside of the Church, who have been baptised, are contrite over their sins are probably also somewhat of a target for demons. I was just preempting someone pointing out the prevelancy of demonic possessions among Catholics.

              Not that many protestants don't often seek out the help of Catholic exorcists.

              Comment


              • #22
                Moderator's note: This section is for orthodox Christians only.
                Last edited by KingsGambit; 11-07-2014, 07:41 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HeteroDoxic View Post
                  You'd have to tell me what you think those verses say, because I'm pretty sure we aren't going to agree..... :)
                  Ephesians 4:27, ". . . Neither give place to the devil. . . . " Which as Christian we are to no longer to do. This is not the same as being "demonized." It is still not to be done. Being demonized is beyond merely giving the devil a place in one's life. And it is my view, that genuine Christians cannot be demonized. So explain how you disagree with the mere meaning of "give the devil place?"

                  Acts 5:3, ". . . But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie . . . ?" Do you know the answer to Peter's question? The answer is not that of being "demonized." But arguably Ananias did give the devil place in some way. Do you disagree with that? Please give your view.

                  1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: . . ." Do you deny spirits which are not of God are demons?
                  1 John 4:4, ". . . Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world." Being of God is to have over come "them" the spirits which are not of God. And because we have the Holy Spirit within us, which is Christ in us, who is God, who is greater than the world. Out of which we have been saved. Do you really disagree with this?

                  Your comments are very welcome, BTW.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    What a hodgepodge of poll options!
                    The poll had two things I wanted to compare. Those who believe Christians can be demonized/possessed/oppressed. And how generally between the two groups of believers regarding "once saved always saved" and that those who believe one who is save, if not careful can again be among the lost.

                    That being said, how would you have made the list of questions, or worded them differently? Thanks.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      The poll had two things I wanted to compare. Those who believe Christians can be demonized/possessed/oppressed. And how generally between the two groups of believers regarding "once saved always saved" and that those who believe one who is save, if not careful can again be among the lost.

                      That being said, how would you have made the list of questions, or worded them differently? Thanks.
                      Lemme think about that --- just took a quick break from our Jobs for Life class, and I'm teaching!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        How would you characterize the difference between a sincere professing nominal Christian and a genuine Christian?

                        Jesus said to Saul, ". . . To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me." (Acts 26:18.)

                        From this I personally conclude non-Christians and nominal Christians regardless of sect or cult, are under the oppression of Satan and can be demonized. The difference between doing something (baptism, verbal confession, sinners prary, giving one's life, etc) in order to be saved and receiving Christ (John 1:12, 13; John 3:16; 1 John 5:1, 12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5).
                        Well, she would say that this distinction doesn't matter IHO. I don't have permissions to share much detail due to confidentiality reasons, but I have permission to share that one of them was an employed, ordained, Baptist Youth minister. Her firm belief due to her personal knowledge of this person, she would tell you they were definitely on fire for God, and had a personal relationship with Jesus.
                        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                        "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          If you have to make up a new meaning for a word, then you're not translating it correctly. Why should I place any stock in what Dr. Murphy says?
                          The Greek for "possessed with a devil" is δαιμονιζομενον

                          The Greek for "play a harp" is κιθαριζομενον

                          One is not "possessed with a harp." It is more an interpretation than the meaning of "possessed" as apply being "demonized." Or "harpized" to really make up a word. This needs further study on my part. Strong's dictionary translates δαιμονιζομενον to be exercised by a daemon. And translates κιθαριζομενον to play on a lyre.
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                            Well, she would say that this distinction doesn't matter IHO. I don't have permissions to share much detail due to confidentiality reasons, but I have permission to share that one of them was an employed, ordained, Baptist Youth minister. Her firm belief due to her personal knowledge of this person, she would tell you they were definitely on fire for God, and had a personal relationship with Jesus.
                            As to my question, any kind of personal information is outside of what I had requested.

                            I make the distinction between trusting in one's works, baptism, confession with the mouth, saying a pray which BTW are perfectly fine works of faith in and of themselves. But the difference being trusting in the finished work of Christ alone through faith alone, and not in one's actions to receive Christ, such as making Jesus Lord of one's life, surrendering one's life to Christ, giving one's life to Christ and so forth. The latter are extra biblical practices. In short trusting in the finished work of Christ as opposed to trusting in one's actions to receive Christ. Making curtain actions requirements. That is what I was asking.
                            Last edited by 37818; 11-06-2014, 09:03 PM.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Three people who were arguably saved, yet demonized, include 1) Balaam, 2) King Saul, and 3) Simon Magus. Notably, they all participated in witchcraft.

                              And here is a passage that seems to indicate that a large number of believers were also engaged in witchcraft:

                              Acts 19:18-19
                              And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                As to my question, any kind of personal information is outside of what I had requested.

                                I make the distinction between trusting in one's works, baptism, confession with the mouth, saying a pray which BTW are perfectly fine works of faith in and of themselves. But the difference being trusting in the finished work of Christ alone through faith alone, and not in one's actions to receive Christ, such as making Jesus Lord of one's life, surrendering one's life to Christ, giving one's life to Christ and so forth. The latter are extra biblical practices. In short trusting in the finished work of Christ as opposed to trusting in one's actions to receive Christ. Making curtain actions requirements. That is what I was asking.
                                Sounds a bit like the "No True Scotsman Fallacy" to me.
                                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                                Comment

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