Originally posted by robrecht
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Shalom!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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The New Testament is Anti-Semitic
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYour reference to the Baha'i writings being anti-Jewish
I asked you about this in Post #50, but you would only say (#61) that these are the consequences of people rejecting the Revelation of God, rejecting the Guidance and Blessing of a Revelation and the grace, spiritual unity and harmony of which that Revelation offers. Not a very direct response in my opinion, but do you think even this is a positive thing to say about the Jews and others? Do you think it is a neutral thing to say about others? Eventually, you would add that all of this is being self-accursed, 'though you admitted that the Jews would certainly not agree with this characterization of them cursing themselves. Even this, 'though, do you think it is a positive or neutral thing to say about the Jews, namely that they are self-accursed?
Because you appealed to the larger context, I quoted an earlier paragraph in which which the the Jews are spoken of as 'wrapt in the densest veils of satanic fancy and false imaginings, still expecting the idol of their own handiwork. Thus hath God laid hold of them for their sins, hath extinguished in them the spirit of faith, and tormented them with the flames of the nethermost fire.'
Do you think it is a positive or neutral thing to say that the Jews are wrapt in the densest veils of satanic fancy and false imaginings? To claim that they are looking forward to is idolatry? To say that God laid hold of them for their sins, that he extinguished in them the spirit of faith, and tormented them with the flames of the nethermost fire--does that sound like a positive or neutral thing to say about the Jews? Really? Be honest.
If I am using hyperbolic language here, it is only because I am directly quoting the negative language of this text to you in an attempt to get you to speak plainly and honestly about it. This text certainly does not seem positive or neutral about the Jews.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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By the way, does the Universal House of Justice agree that it has no authority to interpret Baha'i scriptures?
Originally posted by Sen McGlinn View PostYes, absolutely. To quote one of their statements:
If you prefer to take this discussion back to its original context in the discussion Shuny and I were having here on Revelation, I've posted this question that that thread as well:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...356#post124356אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostIf you prefer to take this discussion back to its original context in the discussion Shuny and I were having here on Revelation, I've posted this question that that thread as well:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...356#post124356
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People seem to read into the scriptures anything they happen to think. And undoubtedly the historical churches of christianity have been rabidly anti-semetic nearly from the beginning and particularly so with Roman catholics. This factor has toned down some in the last few centuries but the echoes seem to remain and perpetuate regardless.
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Originally posted by squint View PostPeople seem to read into the scriptures anything they happen to think. And undoubtedly the historical churches of christianity have been rabidly anti-semetic nearly from the beginning and particularly so with Roman catholics. This factor has toned down some in the last few centuries but the echoes seem to remain and perpetuate regardless.
I would also like to note that in the NT, the Jews are usually Judai, and that the book concerns itself with Israel rather than Rabbinic Judaism or Christianity. The appearance of anti-Jewish passages are actually anti-Herod, and anti-Pharisee.Last edited by Omniskeptical; 11-25-2014, 03:34 PM.
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Originally posted by Omniskeptical View PostWhen Judaism stops its quest to tell Christians that their traditions are all completely false and its book; you will see a lot less hostility towards Jews. Jews ask the same thing of us. Who has the double standard now?
I would also like to note that in the NT, the Jews are usually Judai, and that the book concerns itself with Israel rather than Rabbinic Judaism or Christianity. The appearance of anti-Jewish passages are actually anti-Herod, and anti-Pharisee.
Jesus didn't make that claim nor did the O.T. Word of God make that claim.
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Everyone who are not saved are under the bondage of the devil. So any verse which accuses Judeans is not to be understood any differently that that of the unsaved nations. ". . . To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me. " -- Acts 26:18.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Omniskeptical View PostWhen Judaism stops its quest to tell Christians that their traditions are all completely false and its book; you will see a lot less hostility towards Jews. Jews ask the same thing of us. Who has the double standard now?
I would also like to note that in the NT, the Jews are usually Judai, and that the book concerns itself with Israel rather than Rabbinic Judaism or Christianity. The appearance of anti-Jewish passages are actually anti-Herod, and anti-Pharisee.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe stupid squabbles you speak of result in Doctrine, Dogma, and the body of beliefs
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Originally posted by Omniskeptical View PostModern Jews don't believe Jesus is a statement made by God. If Jesus was human, and he most certainly was, there is no reason he shouldn't be. Jews have a hard time believing this, but it doesn't make their doubts anyless cynical.Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-27-2015, 05:39 PM.
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Thanks for the article; very interesting. It's rather sophomoric to attempt to fit today's buzz phrases into Biblical context. I guess the root of it all is that man is evil in nature and is in need of a savior. However, this Scripture in Romans neatly sums the point up:
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin" Romans 3:9
- Steven
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