"Rapture" Flavors

[Dogbyte]

sometimes you want to be literal and some other times you don't want to. ok we all do this, this is why I think the scriptures must be read with the spirit of god.

im afraid you keep misunderstanding me when i refer to jesus death in the middle of the week. i mean it, as the prophesy means it, in the middle of the 70th week, the year is the middle of the week, as you say below, you keep mentioning the weeks as if they are days. im not sure if you mean literal days of the week, or as in years like the prophesy maintains.

ok it's a possible interpretation for this point, even if I don't agree.

the point im trying to get at, is this is not an interpretation, you get a starting point given by the Bible, and an ending point given by the Bible. what is being interpreted in your opinion? what is being represented that could be wrong? this span of time cannot have any room to slide, a prophesy is fulfilled when it meets all specifications given. is Jesus death not well documented? even if it is not agreed upon to the day of the week and the year by everyone, sooner or later you must either put man's misunderstanding of scripture higher, or lower, than the scripture itself. i dont expect a historian that might not even believe in God to study the Bible the way a believer would. The Bible says its scriptures are foolishness to these men. So im not sure that every historicists view must be in harmony or agreement, for me. no matter, because they often are the opposite.

well, I see no difference at all. the two trumpets are sounded by an angel, the time and the mystery is finished, the righteous has eternal life and the unrighteous is in the lake of fire forever.

then we'll have to agree to disagree. i think the discription of their origins are vastly different, and before you have 7 last plagues, you have to have 7 first plagues. the language is there for a reason in my view, and our comprehension is dependent upon it. the 7th trumpet, or the third "woe", is the beginning of God's wrath, the 7 last plagues. This is where he avenges the dead, the first fruits that are resurrected that lay in the streets. the 7th trumpet is where Jesus begins his reign, the people of earth have all made a choice at this point, thats why the 7 bowls are all poured out on the wicked. the sheep have been judged from the goats, thats what this entire 7 trumpets, or 1260 days from the beginning of the 1335 days of the GT was for, to force the living to make a choice, because the dead have already made their choice upto the very day the GT begins. notice:

Revelation 11:14-19 (KJV) 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

now for the first bowl.

Revelation 15:5 (KJV) And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
Revelation 15:6-8 (KJV) 6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

this is where the event left off at chapter 11. with heavens temple opening at the 7th trumpet, or the third woe. and here are all of the seven bowls....

Revelation 16:1-21 (KJV) 1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. 8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


notice the last bowl verse 17, this bowl is poured into the air, and its the great voice of God out of Heavens temple itself where the throne is located, saying "it is done". What happens next is the the fall of all the wicked cities left on earth, the 7th bowl is the full cup of wrath given to Babylon, after this a great earthquake, and hail stones out of the sky fall upon the wicked that blasphemed God, and the plague was "exeeding great".

So therefore, i see a great difference in the seventh trumpet, and the 7th bowl. chapter 19 and 20 is where as Jesus is descending from the temple, the wicked are slayed with the word out of his mouth, and satan is bound for 1000 years, and sealed, only to be released, but not UNTIL the 1000 years are finished, released for a season, this period of time when he is released again is when he leads ALL of the wicked that has ever lived on earth, to war against the new Jerusalem, this is where they are executed, as in the second death.

yes, you're right, nothing is impossible to god. the only thing is that someone interpreting the bible like you will say that the day when jesus died was in a middle of the week. but someone interpreting it like me will say that it was at the end of the week. so we have two different starting points for counting the weeks. 3 years of difference. like you said, the only reference about a jubilee year in the bible is the invasion of sennacherib against jerusalem. so we have to have a precise date of this event to say who is right between us two. I would like to know. even if you know the exact date of a solar eclipse near the time of these event. how will count the years between the solar eclipse and the event, knowing that historians contradict themselves about the time of this event and also about what happened during this event. sennacherib himself saying that this event didn't happen like the bible described it.

i do not say Jesus died in the middle of the week (of days), he died on a friday. here is where i am confused at you melding the 70 weeks of daniel 9 and the literal 7 day week that jesus died in. having come to Jerusalem on Nisan 11 and died on Nisan 16. sunday evening and died on friday afternoon. note that in God's calendar, evening begins a day, so sunday evening, to us, would be saturday evening. Jesus had passover with his disciples on the correct night of Nisan 14/15 (thursday), and the next day died.

if my confusion is unwarranted, and you maintain that you think Jesus died at the end of the week of years, the 70th week, then how to you reconcile Daniel 9 to fit your view? seems that you need to make the "middle of the week" somehow become the "end of the week", and since the scripture is there plain as day, im not sure if this can be done. Christ was to cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease, how else can this be done other than fulfilling the blood oath itself? which is what the sacrifice and oblation point to in the first place!?

Daniel 9:27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

i think an interpretation would indeed need to be fashioned, to make Christs death fulfill this scripture in any other way than how it is given. We throw the words interpretation around a lot, and i know its harmless, but at some point, the text can be said to speak for itself. who's interpreting straight forward rendering? If Daniel 9 says Jesus will die in the middle of the 70th week, then thats how i understand it to mean, not my interpretation, but just my understanding of text.

" the only reference about a jubilee year in the bible is the invasion of sennacherib against jerusalem. so we have to have a precise date of this event to say who is right between us two."

who are you going to trust for this exact year? someone else? or the Bible?

allowing Jesus' death to pin down the Jubilee calendar, the date of the Bible documented year of Jubilee agrees with Jesus death. A Jubilee year does not begin on any year, it needs to be a sunday year, or the 1st year of 7, and ALSO the 49th year of a cycle. Isaiah 37:30, 702BC. You will never get historians to agree on one date, but 702 BC is one of the proposed years. It will ultimately come down to who you would rather put faith in, a historicist, or the Bible. historians are valuable to lend confidence or bolster the dates given, but its a cherry pick to who you'd rather take as the truth, none of them agree, there is always another side to the dates contention.

I would like to know. even if you know the exact date of a solar eclipse near the time of these event. how will count the years between the solar eclipse and the event, knowing that historians contradict themselves about the time of this event and also about what happened during this event. sennacherib himself saying that this event didn't happen like the bible described it.

what solar eclipse are you referring to? a real eclipse? or a miracle? do we know for sure it was a solar eclipse? So what if Sennacherib describes it different, have we ever known a king to pad the recording of his own conquests? or to tell the truth? im not saying we shouldnt strive to understand what is given in the Bible, and not write everything off as "the bible says it, so its true". But eventually, you will reach subjects that oppose each other to the point where your trust will need to lie with one, or the other. But i know what your asking, so maybe we can talk about the text first, then look to see what the astronomical charts say and where they agree or disagree. But the pin point in time, is with Jesus' death, this nails down the Jubilee calendar, and its the most demonstratable to the very day, the moon charts aligning with it is a huge plus, since they are not opinions, they are also mathematically proven, and unbiased.

even if you manage to find a precise year date for this event. you must be able to know the exact month in which this happened in order to know when they sow. and when you know the month in which they sow, you must know if they will sow the year before or after this event, knowing that some translations use past times conjugation and some others use present time conjugation.

i dont fully understand what you are saying, can you reword it? this is not an event, this is saying that the Jubilee year following a sabbath year, will also be a year of rest to the land. so the third year after a sabbath year, they people will begin to sow again. this will be the spring time. Nisan 1 was historically on the first new moon on or after the spring equinox, the ripening of the winter barley happens with onset of spring, this allowed a sheaf of bread to always be available for the Table of Shew Bread in the Temple.

what are you meaning by we must know the exact month of sowing?

only after having done all this research and calculation can you begin to count weeks of years between this event and the death of christ. this is a very complicated thing to do to prove your interpretation.

no, i disagree, while i have already done all of this type of research already for myself, it all started with being able to demonstrate the month/day/year of Christs death. there are no other years close enough to AD 30, that have the new moon conjunction in time for Christ to observe the sabbath with his disciples, and then to be crucified on a friday (day of preparation), before the national passover sabbatical saturday, just as the gospel gives account of, this is important. the next set of years prior, or after, are well outside the known dates for Christs time here on earth, even by historical views, and outside texts...

If you take the Word of God as the truth, which im coming to find out that not a ton of professed Christians do, then you will at some point need to trust in the actions of Christ, or account thereof, to be able to align his last few days on earth, with what the lunar charts say were so for that period of time. The prescribed time Christ observes the passover would have been exactly as it is told under Law in the Mosaic covenant. If you can accept this, then the demonstration is more meaningful, if not, then any year "close" could be the year Christ died.

[treeOflife]

the point im trying to get at, is this is not an interpretation, you get a starting point given by the Bible, and an ending point given by the Bible. what is being interpreted in your opinion? what is being represented that could be wrong?

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"
in my opinion, this prophecy is not about jesus. in my interpretation, this is about the devil making a covenant with many the last week, not jesus.

then we'll have to agree to disagree. i think the discription of their origins are vastly different, and before you have 7 last plagues, you have to have 7 first plagues. the language is there for a reason in my view, and our comprehension is dependent upon it. the 7th trumpet, or the third "woe"

yes, we'll have to agree to disagree!

the 7th trumpet is where Jesus begins his reign, the people of earth have all made a choice at this point, thats why the 7 bowls are all poured out on the wicked. the sheep have been judged from the goats, thats what this entire 7 trumpets, or 1260 days from the beginning of the 1335 days of the GT was for, to force the living to make a choice, because the dead have already made their choice upto the very day the GT begins. notice:

this is a very original interpretation, I never heard it before. but I don't agree because for me, like I said before, the 7th trumpet is the end of time. the third woe is the judgement of the seven vials.

i do not say Jesus died in the middle of the week (of days), he died on a friday. here is where i am confused at you melding the 70 weeks of daniel 9 and the literal 7 day week that jesus died in.

don't worry, I understand. I'm writing about weeks of years... days = years, in weeks of years.

if my confusion is unwarranted, and you maintain that you think Jesus died at the end of the week of years, the 70th week, then how to you reconcile Daniel 9 to fit your view? seems that you need to make the "middle of the week" somehow become the "end of the week", and since the scripture is there plain as day, im not sure if this can be done. Christ was to cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease, how else can this be done other than fulfilling the blood oath itself? which is what the sacrifice and oblation point to in the first place!?

I wrote about this in my previous replies. for me, the last week covenant is made by the devil, and the "sacrifice and oblation" is not jesus, it is not the daily sacrifice. notice that the word "daily" is not present in this prophecy. for me this is not about jesus, but just about a simple sacrifice in a temple. you should read again my previous replies.

who are you going to trust for this exact year? someone else? or the Bible?

good question! sometimes the bible contains copist errors...

But the pin point in time, is with Jesus' death, this nails down the Jubilee calendar, and its the most demonstratable to the very day, the moon charts aligning with it is a huge plus, since they are not opinions, they are also mathematically proven, and unbiased.

you don't understand. all your interpretation is based on dates. you are so precise with dates.
what I say is this. even if you can find the day and year of christ's death with accuracy, like 30AD. your counting back of years from the death of christ using the jubilee calendar depends on your interpretation of the prophecy. if you think jesus made a covenant the last 70th week and died in the middle of this week. you will say that the week of year end in 33AD. but if like me, you say that it is the devil that make a covenant with many the last week, and that jesus died at the end of the 69 weeks. you will say that the week of year end in 30AD. so we need a date that doesn't depend on interpretation.

i dont fully understand what you are saying, can you reword it? this is not an event, this is saying that the Jubilee year following a sabbath year, will also be a year of rest to the land. so the third year after a sabbath year, they people will begin to sow again. this will be the spring time. Nisan 1 was historically on the first new moon on or after the spring equinox, the ripening of the winter barley happens with onset of spring, this allowed a sheaf of bread to always be available for the Table of Shew Bread in the Temple.

what are you meaning by we must know the exact month of sowing?

we need to have a sure point in time to be able to count the weeks of year and this point is the invasion of sennacherib.
when sennacherib came and besieged jerusalem, how many time did he besiege the city? had they already sowed and harvested food this year ot not? was this year the sabbath year or the the jubilee year? you have to be precise. moreover some bibles say "you will eat the first year and the second year such things that grow of themselves" and other bibles say "you did eat the first year and the second year such things...". this is very complicated.

you must find the exact date of this year, without counting back from the death of christ.

[Dogbyte]

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" in my opinion, this prophecy is not about jesus. in my interpretation, this is about the devil making a covenant with many the last week, not jesus.

the prophecy clearly defines the "annointed one" with "prince", i see no reason to redefine them to mean Satan.

this is a very original interpretation, I never heard it before. but I don't agree because for me, like I said before, the 7th trumpet is the end of time. the third woe is the judgement of the seven vials.

well the origin is the Bible, but just because its new to you, dont let that be a reason to not take it for reproof. if some idea disagrees with your paradigm, then go search out and reconcile the differences. like you said, "i dont agree because", then you give your view.

the third woe, is the judgment of the seven vials or bowls, that third woe is the 7th trumpet, marking the beginning of the 7 bowls.....

the 7th trumpet is the opening of the Temple in heaven, then read what is described as the beginning of the 7 bowls.... its the same event.

don't worry, I understand. I'm writing about weeks of years... days = years, in weeks of years.

ah ok, good.

good question! sometimes the bible contains copist errors...

such as? i know of minute errors that dont even change the subject or context of the verse, but not any that distort or change meanings of scripture. i am talking about the original hebrew and greek here... translations however can be reconciled by looking at the literal renderings of the old texts, however sometimes idioms or the like may need to be understood when a meaning is abstract. you and i would never mean the phrase "time flys" to be taken literally...

you don't understand. all your interpretation is based on dates. you are so precise with dates.

all my dates are based on the day/month/year of Christs death. with the Bible, and the use of God's clocks (sun/earth/moon), astronomical charts can be relied upon to within a 2 hour margin of error.

what I say is this. even if you can find the day and year of christ's death with accuracy, like 30AD. your counting back of years from the death of christ using the jubilee calendar depends on your interpretation of the prophecy.

no it depends on the fulfillment of a prophecy, the beginning point is given, and the ending point of that prophesy is given, what is being interpreted? the prophesy is given in weeks instead of years, why? because only one decree is given on a sunday year, no other year can start a reckoning of weeks, this is how the Jubilee calendar works. If you call this an interpretation, then so be it, however i am not claiming ownership of it. If Christs death did not fulfill the prophecy, then this prophesy would not be fulfilled. This time period was to be reckoned as the time allotted for Israel to "end its transgressions", this 70 weeks was to be "cut off" from a larger period of time, 2300 days. If you force the scripture to tick off time outside the Jubilee calendar, which you should have no reason to(its active during these time periods), then you'll then need to find events and dates that the Bible gives no description about and no reference to, you'd have to depend on historians to agree on this or that, so this way of reckoning is truly an interpretation, since so much of the ingredients is based on self reasoning and outside influence.

if you think jesus made a covenant the last 70th week and died in the middle of this week. you will say that the week of year end in 33AD. but if like me, you say that it is the devil that make a covenant with many the last week, and that jesus died at the end of the 69 weeks. you will say that the week of year end in 30AD. so we need a date that doesn't depend on interpretation.

first i would say, like i did above, that a proper exegesis of the prophecy would define "the annoited one" and the "prince" as the same person, not one being Jesus, and one being Satan.

second, i would also say, that dieing at the end of the 69th week, is not the same as in the MIDDLE of the 69th week, this appears contradictory.

and third, a week of years in God's jubilee calendar, is not a period of 7 years that you can move around at will, they must start in a year compatible with the decree specified in Dan 9, and Jesus' death. one is aligned with the other all the way back to the exodus even.

ignoring all three points is, in my view, an interpretation heavily dependent on unreasonable methods, some of which are even illogical.

thats why i keep hammering on about rules, and adhering to them no matter what. even though they can be stated in ways that seem elementary, they are rules nonetheless. like all 70 weeks must occur in sequential order, sounds silly, but this rule is broken to those that dissect the 70th week and apply it to the future, saying the great tribulation will be a period of 7 years, and they fit the rapture accordingly. This is a serious example of breaking a simple logical rule. week 70 must come directly after week 69, not thousands of years later. another one would be, the presence of the Jubilee calendar says that a week of years always starts in a sunday year, and at no other time, if a period is given in weeks, then the commencement of those weeks will need to start in a sunday year, the rule sounds silly, but this is the way the calendar works, it cannot be ignored or broken. its not so much an interpretation, but an adhering to a set of logical rules, and letting the Bible explain the affairs of things using good comprehension based on contextual clues or good exegesis. If all these things are not meant to be understood as they are given, then why are they there to begin with? if they are only understood with a "proper interpretation", then who will be that person to declare his understanding for everyone to follow? i believe that has been tried before. when you see "he who has an ear, let him discern and understand", this is not fluff, this is for a specified group of listeners, listeners that we should all hope and strive to be part of. The Bible will speak on its own, not the other way around. But it wont happen without study, and not with a surface reading, you gotta test it all in on itself.

we need to have a sure point in time to be able to count the weeks of year and this point is the invasion of sennacherib.

i want you to consider that this date is a poor choice to START with. Because, could you ever get a group of people to agree on any exact year of an event such as this? A date that fits and aligns with Christ's death is out there for this event, are you saying that there must be a consensus before it be declared the truth or evidence? I believe Christs death is a much more better time period to nail down the calendar, a lot less outside influence has bearing in its demonstration.

when sennacherib came and besieged jerusalem, how many time did he besiege the city?

why are you assuming that this siege wasnt the first? All other cities of Judah had fell, and now Sennacherib came against the Holy City. what is your reasoning for this assumption? If this isnt the first siege, when was the one prior? who won? who lost? where is the evidence in the Bible of these battles?

had they already sowed and harvested food this year ot not? was this year the sabbath year or the the jubilee year?

This is the sabbath year, later in chapter 37 (but still in the time frame of chapter 36), its said:

Isaiah 37:30 (ASV) And this shall be the sign unto thee: ye shall eat this year that which groweth of itself, and in the second year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof.

you cannot have already sowed a harvest, if "this year" you are eating what "grows of itself", what grows of itself, is land that is already fallow. the next year was the year of jubilee, and the 3rd year was when they would began to sow and reap again.

Sennacherib already doesnt agree with the Bible, by his own recording. He was one of the less fortunate kings of Assyria, and couldnt keep his own throne from his sons, who killed him. the Taylor prism records a sort of an anti-climax with him defeating and pillaging dozens of cities heading to Jerusalem, taking their spoils and people too, but in the end saying that he "shut up king hezekiah in his city like a caged bird". why no defeat? Sennacherib claims tribute was paid, the Bible claims the assyrian army was slaughtered by God, and after he left back to Ninevah, his staging area, and headquarters, his two sons killed him as he prayed in the temple. there are some apparent inconsistencies with the Taylor prism, like whether or not Sennacherib took the town of Lachish, because of the lack of record by Sennacherib's successor of having control of that city, or it being retaken by Judah, who Nebuchadnezzar took it from about 100 years later, at that time, Judah was in control, not Sennacherib's successor, but thats a whole other can of worms... thats why this date is not a good one to use as a cornerstone, or a starting point.

Jesus' 70th week ended with a year (sabbath) that a year of Jubilee (50th/1st) was to follow. I cannot for sure demonstrate this yet, and it may be an idea in vain, but i think Jesus himself referred to a year of Jubilee when he quoted Isaiah 61 in Luke 4, the "acceptable year of our Lord" or the "yeah of Jehovah's favor". remember this was when those in debt were to be set free, and land to be given back. If Israel had accepted the Messiah, and mourned his death like Abraham had a heavy heart about sacrificing Isaac, so too would Israel have a heavy heart about the Messiah having to bear our sins with his payment of blood, but notice Jesus didnt quote that part, neither did Israel mourn His death, but instead jeered at it. If this reference is correct, then this is a point in time where Jesus acknowledges an oncoming Jubilee year, this reference was shortly after his ministry began, in a sunday year.

This 70th week is singular, this one week Jesus did confirm His covenant. He did cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. The act of being sacrificed, was the whole reason that the "daily" was done twice a day, and it shadowed the coming sacrifice of Jesus, thats the whole point of it all. This is what He promised when sin first entered the world, this was the blood oath Jesus entered into, His blood instead of Mankind.

no more sacrifice, means no more shadow, the real thing came, and took place. This ended the Mosaic covenant, and ended the ritual obligations.

[gary cook]

We Must understand the purpose of the GREAT Tribulation?
It is GODS wrath on a evil world , who are refused to be Saved and obey His way of life!
His Wrath ! No other reason for it!

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

[treeOflife]

the prophecy clearly defines the "annointed one" with "prince", i see no reason to redefine them to mean Satan.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. the last week covenant is made by the devil and not by jesus.
I don't agree with your interpretation of the prophecy so I don't agree with your calculation of years.

if some idea disagrees with your paradigm, then go search out and reconcile the differences.

maybe you should change your paradigm too.

If you call this an interpretation, then so be it, however i am not claiming ownership of it

first i would say, like i did above, that a proper exegesis of the prophecy would define "the annoited one" and the "prince" as the same person, not one being Jesus, and one being Satan.

I'm sorry but for me, jesus, the anointed one, died at the end of 69 weeks.
the people of the prince that destroy the sanctuary is the people of the roman empire, then the last 70th week is a covenant between the roman empire and "many".

but this rule is broken to those that dissect the 70th week and apply it to the future, saying the great tribulation will be a period of 7 years, and they fit the rapture accordingly. This is a serious example of breaking a simple logical rule. week 70 must come directly after week 69, not thousands of years later.

this is not a serious problem, because when jesus died after 69 weeks. the kingdom was taken away from the jews and given to the christian along with the holy ghost.
god will remember the jews the last 70th week, thousands of years later.

if they are only understood with a "proper interpretation", then who will be that person to declare his understanding for everyone to follow?

the holy ghost!

i want you to consider that this date is a poor choice to START with. Because, could you ever get a group of people to agree on any exact year of an event such as this?

it may be a poor choice, but it is the only choice. all others depend on interpretations.

This 70th week is singular, this one week Jesus did confirm His covenant. He did cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

some bibles don't even say "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week". some bibles say "he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week" (gabar - strong) and this is a better translation in my opinion.

I'm sorry but I disagree with you!

gary cook said :

My question is the days shortened so there are people left for us to lord over ? Some Must be here after the anti-christ is cast into hell and satan is bound for the 100o years of Peace!
I do not understand , why the people after the 1000 years want to join together to kill our LORD JESUS!

there are no literal 1000 years. the millenium is symbolic. 1000 years is a symbolic number for every years between the death of christ and the reign of the beast 666.
satan was bound when jesus died, because the kingdom was taken from the jews and given to the christians.
satan is bound, he cannot seduce the nations anymore, because there are christians with the kingdom and the holy ghost in every nations.
but when the beast 666 will reign on earth, god will take his people away from his wrath, this is the rapture. when the rapture will happen, god will take his people and place them in a safe place, there won't be any christian in the nations anymore, and satan will be free to do as he want with those that have the mark of the beast for 3 years and a half. when these 3 years will be over, he will try to kill jesus and his people, this is called armageddon.

[treeOflife]

the 7th trumpet is the opening of the Temple in heaven, then read what is described as the beginning of the 7 bowls.... its the same event.

it's not the same event. before the third woe (the 7 vials), the "temple of the tabernacle of the testimony" is opened in heaven. not the whole temple, but only the holy of holies, and 7 angels come out of it and are given 7 last plagues. then the whole temple is filled with smoke and no man can enter in it. when the 7 vials are finished, the 7th trumpet sound and the smoke disappear, the temple is open and men can enter in it, they become pillars in the temple of god.

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out"

[gary cook]

Satan is NOT BOUND!

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

[Aposphet]

No I don't believe it. Considering the pre-Trib notion of the Rapture wasn't brought up until 150 years ago in England, surely this would have been discussed by the Church Fathers much earlier on. Christ says we shouldn't worry about when He will come but wants to see us repenting.

[James-Scott]

Okay, for the event commonly known as the "Rapture" - which is your view?

I put "other."

I definately believe the Church will be on earth until the Second and Glorious Coming of Christ. But it seems to be unclear whether or not this will be a literal "rapture" or if to be, "caught up," is a figure of speach. Either way, the only dogmatic belief that the Eastern Orthodox have about the Second Coming is, "And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end," and, "I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the Life of the Age to come."

[DJWatz]

I put other. I'm in the Amil/ part preterist camp on this one. As well, the idea of us all leaving this place is at odds with the intent of the passages often used to prove the rapture concept, which is more about us meeting the King and escorting him here. And if he's coming here as king...

Let's just say I'd rather be left behind, with him. :)

[LordSaanjun]

Pre-millennial futurist who believes in a catching-up, but not a Rapture. I'm a big believer in N.T. Wright's idea that we've basically gotten eschatology wrong in the last 200 years, and that our over-emphasis on the "Rapture" (an entirely unbiblical concept!) is just proof of that. I don't believe that we believers will disappear into heaven leaving our clothes behind, let's just put it that way. I do believe in the incorruptible body and the new heaven and new earth, and I believe that we will all be changed for eternity into new creations suitable for dwelling with God. That's sort of meandering, but there you have it.

[R. Hoeppner]

The rapture has not happened to date. Therefore it must happen in the future. The answer to Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:24) is that will take place in the future, in the days of the world ten kings (kingdoms-Daniel 7:24) which has not happened yet. John wrote Revelation after the fall of Jerusalem (AD 70) and never connected that to the rise of the beast and his attributes (according to Revelation 13), and since at the writing there was no temple in Jerusalem, (having been destroyed by the Titus and the Roman legions)
What's needful in the Gentile Christian church is a good understanding of God's seven feasts (Leveticus 23).

Excuse my boldness to state that without an understanding of the 7 "feasts" that God calls His, Christians will be prone to misconceptions when it comes to Biblical prophecy.
First of all, the word 'feasts' is misleading. It comes from the Hebrew word, "MOED," and means "appointments."
Secondly they are divided into the 4 Spring Feasts, and the 3 Fall Feasts - and they all point to and reveal something of the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. Was Jesus speaking of this the in Luke 23:31?
Thirdly, Jesus came the first time as the Lamb of God and literally fulfilled the Spring Feasts (appointments).

He was crucified on Passover - (Pesach)
Buried on the feast of Unleavened Bread - (Chag Hamotzi)
Rose on the feast of Firstfruits - (Yom Habikkurim)
Baptized believers with the Holy Ghost on Pentecost - (Shavuot)

He will fulfill the Fall Feasts on the very days of those feasts sometime in the future. The next feast to be fulfilled is
The (appointment) feast of Trumpets. - (Yom Teruah). This feast is also known as the feast that "No man knoweth the day or the hour." It is based on when two witnesses report to the Sanhedrin that they observed the momentary sliver of the "new moon" and the Sanhedrin would send to the priest who would mount the temple and blow the Shofar 100 times beginning the feast. By the last trump, every Jew male would have dropped what he was doing and head for the Temple. Some Christians believe the analogy represents the Rapture, but I see it as representing the second advent followed by Atonement (Yom Kippur) and Tabernacles - (Sukkot) and following their fulfillment by the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Christ will reign from Jerusalem for a thousand years.

[Racer X]

Voted other, though I have thing for pre-wrath, just don't tell my wife (she's pre-trib) .

The Rapture will be a future event coinciding with the Day of the Lord and after the man of lawlessness is revealed.

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

[Maryel]

Sorry folks! The poll choices are based on current understanding of the seven seals, which has some gliches. Not enough space to explain here, but I offer a free end time trilogy on Daniel, Revelation, and God's linear calendar from Adam to the White Throne Judgment at www.fireofthelord.com There are many opnions but only one true teacher. NO! NOT ME! Try the Spirit of God. After all, isn't that why Jesus died on the cross, so the promised Spirit of God (YHVH) could come and renew our sinful spirit with his wisdom, knowledge, counsel and much more, so says the Bible?

[Maryel]

GREAT TRIBULATION, A.K.A., WRATH OF YHVH
20—But pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: 21—for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22—And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. (Matthew 24:20-22)

One problem in most end-time interpretation is in the understanding of difference between Great Tribulation and tribulation. There is a difference in timing and context. The Great Tribulation relates specifically to the seven bowls of wrath after the seventh trumpet and referred to in other parts of the Bible as God’s indignation, anger, and wrath. The first six trumpets are warnings for the coming Day of YHVH. We are always in a time of escalating tribulation that extends into the last seven years. It escalates because of false teaching and disbelief in the ability of YHVH to teach us his truth.

The above verses tell us that Jesus is speaking of the time of his return when he calls the saints out of the way of God’s wrath (seven bowls of wrath), thus the time is shortened for them. Most students of the Revelation are unaware that there are six references to the rapture/resurrection from different perspectives, such as before the wrath, after the wrath, during the wrath, and at the White Throne Judgment—six perspectives, but only one call to those sealed in the Spirit of YaHavah and one wrath to destroy all who would not believe and obey.

Rev. 6:12-17 (warning of the coming Day of YHVH and sealing of the remnant), Rev. 7:9 (all of the resurrected), Rev. 11:15-19 (White Throne), Rev. 14:14-20 (Son of Man on a cloud), Rev. 15:2-8 (sea of glass during the wrath per Isaiah 26:20), Rev. 18:4-5 (remnant of Israel), Rev. 19:6-9 (Marriage of the Lamb after the wrath)

Matthew 24—SIGNS OF CHRIST’S RETURN (see Mark 13:1-37; Luke 17:22-37)
Note for Matthew 24-25: These are the warning signs of the coming Great Day of YHVH, a.k.a. the beginning of the millennium. These signs were prophesied in Zephaniah 1: 14-15, Isaiah 13: 10, and Book of Joel. Jesus reminded his disciples of these prophecies in Matthew 24; Mark 13:1-37; and Luke 21:1-36. They are the same signs occurring when the sixth seal of Revelation 6:12-17 is broken, because the promise for the remnant of Israel is forever attached to the signs of the beginning of the Great Day of YHVH. The timing of the sixth seal is a preview of the end of the sixth trumpet. I know it sounds confusing, but it really is not when all of the pieces are put together. When interpreting these verses, keep in mind that the prophecy of seventy sevens provides the guidelines and constraints to stay on the path of truth. www.fireofthelord.com