"Rapture" Flavors

[BurningBush--U]

The rapture will occur when Jesus comes (Rev 19; 1 Thess 4, etc.) to judge the nations and rule the Kingdom for the final age of this Universe.

Revelation has been fulfilled in history already up to the end of chapter 18. Jesus' return (simultaneous with the catching up of the saints at their resurrection to greet him in the air before descending with Him to reign with Him in His Kingdom) will mark the beginning of "the Millennium".

Maybe final ages and just how long would you say the HUDDLE will be and the procession ?? ?? ?? ?? ??

[BurningBush--U]

Just a few questions? If you don't mind?

What of the two Witnesses?

Historically, there are stories of 2 men going about preaching the gospel.

But these two are different. They not only do this for 1260 days, which is 42 months, which equals 3 1/2 years. But these two witnesses are to be killed and everyone...every nation...will see these two men die, they will see them laying in the street...they'll even throw big parties to celebrate their deaths because of the truths they had talked about convicted the people so much.

Here's the kewl part....they come back to life. Not by people helping them, cause they are glad they are dead. No....God brings them back to life.

Now, for those of you who believe the trib has happened...please show me where this has happened, because this is suppose to happen during the tribulation.

Those of you who beleive the preterist view...again, I know there are hundreds upon thousands who have died for God. But of those....who came back to life....how did all the nations see them die....?

I believe the bible...Revelations 11:1-14...It pretty much explains what i've talked about.

Hum, interesting.

Betcha I could make up a story you could swallow.

Could there be several types of the two witnesses.

Could they already be here and you know them and not know it?

What if it is in progress now and you dont see it?

What if it is already over and you never knew?

What's cruel about bring the two witnesses back to life?

[BurningBush--U]

Ok how bout this, no rapture, no tribulation. Jesus will return once in judgment, all will be Resurrection, some to life some to a Resurrection of judgment.

Then eternity with a Holy and Perfect God!!

Okay.

I don't buy that, but many do.

Why ye say one resurrection, then jump into eternity?

[BurningBush--U]

I don't really consider myself post-trib, but in recent years I've been moving towards amillenialism. And at the moment I see the Rapture merely as the second coming. Of course, I haven't studied the issue yet from its best defenders, so I'm still open to it (heck, if bad junk like that happens, I hope there is a rapture that gets me out of here).

Fire is Good. It cleans and yes can purify you.

Yes, there may be physical volcanos and tidal and comets etcetera

But, the end is known. Ask for extended mercy for His Own and seek to follow Him in all his ways, study the laws and have faith, hold and trim the course of the ship through Christ.

What do you see after Christ Comes!?

What will we do and what will be next?

[Fizban]

Call me crazy Burningbush, but I'd rather NOT go through persecution. No sane person should want that. I am prepared if it comes to that though.

As far as what happens afterwards:

heaven, and our REAL life.

I think my position at the moment is this:

The great tribulation and the beast and all that fun stuff lay in the future still, so I'm not preterist by any sense. Yet I don't see a rapture involved. Just the 2nd coming, after the tribulation.

[studyhound]

Okay.

I don't buy that, but many do.

didnt ask ya too, just gave my POV

Why ye say one resurrection, then jump into eternity?

Cause Jesus taught it.

[Hitch]

Okay.

I don't buy that, but many do.

Why ye say one resurrection, then jump into eternity?

Jesus said a time was coming when all who are in the graves ,the good and the evil, would be raised. But He obviously didnt know as much about eschatology as you.


A wonderful distinction between futurist and preterist is that the latter can ,does and loves to quote Jesus.

H

[BurningBush--U]

Call me crazy Burningbush, but I'd rather NOT go through persecution. No sane person should want that. I am prepared if it comes to that though.

As far as what happens afterwards:

heaven, and our REAL life.

I think my position at the moment is this:

The great tribulation and the beast and all that fun stuff lay in the future still, so I'm not preterist by any sense. Yet I don't see a rapture involved. Just the 2nd coming, after the tribulation.

Thanks for the honest answer. I believe you are sincere.

You don't understand what I believe will happen and thus have a tainted understanding based on other doctrines already learned. Even if there is some PAIN and I had to have Some, you/I should still thank God for it.

You know a hater of God when they are going down in a plane that lost power will say "God damn this and God-damn that" a lover of God even if they have led a bad life will pray, and even praise God and even believe there can be hope if the plane explodes in mid air, they are on fire and they are 20,000 feet up.

What is Fire?
Study That.

I think I can show through the Law and Gods nature and the bible, where there is no need to worry for those that make it, and perhaps those that miss by a little

Heaven is not what is promised in scripture, is it, so why do you believe this is the result of what happens after the so called rapture?

All that stuff is in progress, and ok the 2nd coming:
What happens or what do you do if you make the cut, and have the coming and then what do you do? Where?

Hum?

[BurningBush--U]

Jesus said a time was coming when all who are in the graves ,the good and the evil, would be raised. But He obviously didnt know as much about eschatology as you.


A wonderful distinction between futurist and preterist is that the latter can ,does and loves to quote Jesus.

H

Ah haa ha ha

Play your games I don't care.

[Fizban]

Thanks for the honest answer. I believe you are sincere.

You don't understand what I believe will happen and thus have a tainted understanding based on other doctrines already learned. Even if there is some PAIN and I had to have Some, you/I should still thank God for it.

You know a hater of God when they are going down in a plane that lost power will say "God damn this and God-damn that" a lover of God even if they have led a bad life will pray, and even praise God and even believe there can be hope if the plane explodes in mid air, they are on fire and they are 20,000 feet up.

What is Fire?
Study That.

I think I can show through the Law and Gods nature and the bible, where there is no need to worry for those that make it, and perhaps those that miss by a little

Heaven is not what is promised in scripture, is it, so why do you believe this is the result of what happens after the so called rapture?

All that stuff is in progress, and ok the 2nd coming:
What happens or what do you do if you make the cut, and have the coming and then what do you do? Where?

Hum?

Believe me, I am quite familiar with pre-tribulational rapture eschatology. I've practically been taught since I was weaned. My main problem with it is I think that every verse used to support the rapture makes more sense when referring to the second coming. My position may be closest to NT Wright's, no rapture. Just the return. I currently believe there are problems with every eschatological construct, but then again, I have yet to have time to fully study each of them by their chief proponents.

I'm fairly certain that I will either end up as DF or an Amill. Preterist. I didn't think Gentry's case for post-millenialism was that convincing, but I'd be more than willing to give it a more indepth read (heck, it is definitely appealing).

Heaven is what is promised, although not in the familiar conception. I really prefer Randy Alcorn's treatment on the subject in his book Heaven.

[efta777]

Believe me, I am quite familiar with pre-tribulational rapture eschatology. I've practically been taught since I was weaned. My main problem with it is I think that every verse used to support the rapture makes more sense when referring to the second coming. My position may be closest to NT Wright's, no rapture. Just the return. I currently believe there are problems with every eschatological construct, but then again, I have yet to have time to fully study each of them by their chief proponents.

I'm fairly certain that I will either end up as DF or an Amill. Preterist. I didn't think Gentry's case for post-millenialism was that convincing, but I'd be more than willing to give it a more indepth read (heck, it is definitely appealing).

Heaven is what is promised, although not in the familiar conception. I really prefer Randy Alcorn's treatment on the subject in his book Heaven.

Yes, they like to teach the pre-trib rapture theory to the young. I think that maybe they realize that if kids believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, maybe they'll be willing to believe this too.... just a thought.
Fizban, you say that you'll end up either a DF or an Amil. Preterist... this seems odd. It would be difficult to find two more opposite viewpoints. Does this mean that you really haven't made up your mind on any of these issues?

[Bill the Cat]

I think that maybe they realize that if kids believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, maybe they'll be willing to believe this too.... just a thought.

Efta, that was very disrespectful to those of us who are DF, and have studied the issue and came down on the pre-mill side. I would not ever (except maybe to poke fun at Faramir ) use those words to describe a- or post-millers. You should realize that there are those of us who do not agree with DeMar and Gentry, and are not convinced by their interpretations.

Thanks

[BurningBush--U]

My position may be closest to NT Wright's, no rapture. Just the return.
Heaven is what is promised, although not in the familiar conception. I really prefer Randy Alcorn's treatment on the subject in his book Heaven.

NO Rapture, is true and correct, lean on the scriptures.

Heaven is not promised anyplace in scripture. You must read that into the scripture and therefore is not accurate to say it is true.

The kingdom of heaven is here and now and coming more, but the Heavens are the Lords and we get the earth...

[ForHimAlone]

Since I believe the Trib happened a few thousand years ago, I am as post-trib as they get. But I voted other because I am not what is normally meant by "post-trib" and I do not want to skew the demographics.

Other Post-Trib all the way for me too. Trib as described in Olivet and Apoc. happened "back in the day." believers will, however, continue to have trib in the world until the Savior appears to clean house.

[ForHimAlone]

Believe me, I am quite familiar with pre-tribulational rapture eschatology. I've practically been taught since I was weaned. My main problem with it is I think that every verse used to support the rapture makes more sense when referring to the second coming. My position may be closest to NT Wright's, no rapture. Just the return. I currently believe there are problems with every eschatological construct, but then again, I have yet to have time to fully study each of them by their chief proponents.

I'm fairly certain that I will either end up as DF or an Amill. Preterist. I didn't think Gentry's case for post-millenialism was that convincing, but I'd be more than willing to give it a more indepth read (heck, it is definitely appealing).

Heaven is what is promised, although not in the familiar conception. I really prefer Randy Alcorn's treatment on the subject in his book Heaven.

I am one who believes as Dee Dee: Trib happened "back in the day". Trib shall plague the Church until Christ comes again, however, just not as the dispys see it. I am one who believes Rapture coincides with, or is another name for, the glorification of the saints at the Second Advent of Christ. The rapture is an event to my mind that occurs only at the eschaton and not before. I see one Second Advent, one glorification of the church, one, final judgment, and one renovation of the world. All these events contingent on Christ's return. You are correct in saying "every verse used to support the rapture makes more sense when referring to the second coming" but I would augment your statement that there is to be "no rapture" by saying that there will be no "pre-trib" rapture (as there is no future seven -year trib) and that the rapture in question coincides or is synonymous with the Second Advent, as this event includes the resurrection and glorification of the saints.

I remain,
ForHimAlone