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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Is "Why is there something rather than nothing?" a legitimate question?
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
Now why didn't I think of that?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by element771 View PostStating that currently the best supported model in science for the origin of the universe is the BB theory?
The current view of science does not consider the beginning of our universe as a singularity as a definitive beginning without preexisting matter and/or energy.
That is my religious agenda?
By your 'ex-spurt opinions' so far you do not measure up to Vilenkin, Hawking, and the others I cited. I am not the issue that you are playing ad hominem games with, it is the qualified physicists, and cosmologists that you have no comperable qualifications. I demonstrated your religious agenda by directly citing your previous posts.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIt is not the currently best supported model alone in science for the origin of the universe. The current view of science is that the the BB is NOT a beginning without previously existing matter/energy. Regardless of your ex-spurt opinion the multiverse is a widely held hypothesis among physicists and cosmologists far more qualified than you.
It is the best supported model full stop.
This is not the current view, please stop pretending to understand science.
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe current view of science does not consider the beginning of our universe as a singularity as a definitive beginning without preexisting matter and/or energy.Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYour religious agenda is reflected as cited that scientific 'findings' may be used to support religious arguments.
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostBy your 'ex-spurt opinions' so far you do not measure up to Vilenkin, Hawking, and the others I cited. I am not the issue that you are playing ad hominem games with, it is the qualified physicists, and cosmologists that you have no comperable qualifications. I demonstrated your religious agenda by directly citing your previous posts.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBut I never defined our universe as being "all that there is." My contention is that there is no such thing as "nothing" in the conventional sense of the term. Therefore, outside of our universe, or beyond that part of it which we can observe, there is either more space, or, there is a spaceless vacuum of non-zero energy into which our universe expands and out of which our universe was born. If we start with the premise that our universe is all that there is, then we are stuck with the odd idea that the universe not only emerged from out of nothing, but that it is expanding even though there is no existing something, no place, which it can expand into.
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Originally posted by element771 View PostIt is the best supported model full stop.
This is not the current view, please stop pretending to understand science.
Carp agrees with me moron. He is an atheist...i guess he has a religious agenda too.
You are the issue because you misrepresent everything to fit your agenda or do you not remember that? Science job? Made up sentences in articles? All around jackassary?
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostBut if there's nothing beyond our universe, wouldn't that simply mean that there is nothing that could hinder the universe from expanding? Because if you say that space cannot expand into nothing you're saying that there is some attribute of nothing that stops space from expanding in to it. But nothing is the complete absence of things, it's not a thing in itself, and as such cannot have any attributes. If there is nothing outside of the universe, then there is nothing in the way of the universe's expansion.Last edited by JimL; 05-09-2018, 11:12 PM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostVilenkin agrees with you. From 1983: Where by "nothing" I mean a state with no classical space-time. "Nothing" is a realm of unrestrained quantum gravity, a pre-geometric state in which all of our basic notions of space, time, energy, entropy etc., lose their meaning.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
Now why didn't I think of that?Last edited by JimL; 05-09-2018, 11:38 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostMoron, stop pretending to understand science.
You also seem to be taking a page out of the political morons who think it is resort to misspelling things on purpose. You know...the ones who don't have any actual facts to back up the crap that they say so they resort to childish misspellings?
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostWe disagreed. he has not called me a moron.Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou are the issue because you misrepresent everything to fit your agenda or do you not remember that? All around jackassary?
Do you remember claiming you do science for a living?
Do you remember adding your own sentences to sources that you use?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostRight, so what we call nothing is a vacuum. In other words, what is outside of our universe may not be material space, but it is a place nontheless, a place in which material space can both exist within, as well as expand into. It would be in that non-zero point energy vacuum that all universes are born, exist within, and expand, until reaching a state of equalibrium at which point they meld back into that womb whence they first emerged.
What I'm saying is, if there is literally nothing outside of our universe, including the non-zero point energy vacuum that you're speaking of, then what exactly would stop the universe from existing, or expanding? I mean, nothing would be in the way of the universe simply existing, nor would anything hinder it's expansion.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostRight, so what we call nothing is a vacuum. In other words, what is outside of our universe may not be material space, but it is a place nontheless, a place in which material space can both exist within, as well as expand into. It would be in that non-zero point energy vacuum that all universes are born, exist within, and expand, until reaching a state of equalibrium at which point they meld back into that womb whence they first emerged.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou didn't have to think of it, it's basically what I've been saying. "Nothing," in the above sense, is not absolute "nothing." Say you have a sphere, a blown up balloon say. Now imagine that the space inside the balloon is completely void of anything, no material space, no matter, no nothing, just an empty void. That void is the "nothing" that would be outside of our universe, a kind of nothing that a universe could be said to expand into. Of course it wouldn't be completely void, it would need contain enough energy for quantum universe creation., and of course these universes would pop into, as well as go out of existence, but the total energy in the void, or what I would call the greater cosmos, would therefore remain constant. The conservation of energy, neither being created nor destroyed!
Conceiving of "nothing" defies the imagination.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostWell no, that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is, if there is literally nothing outside of our universe, including the non-zero point energy vacuum that you're speaking of, then what exactly would stop the universe from existing, or expanding? I mean, nothing would be in the way of the universe simply existing, nor would anything hinder it's expansion.
When you ask "what exactly would stop the universe from existing or expanding if there is literally "NOTHING" , my answer to that would be; the fact that there is "literally" nothing would stop it. Empty space, a void, may be nothing in one sense of the word, it's not material, but in another sense it is not "literally" nothing.Last edited by JimL; 05-10-2018, 09:04 AM.
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