Originally posted by JimL
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Is "Why is there something rather than nothing?" a legitimate question?
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostNatural Law > existence.
So Natural Law came before it existed.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNo, Natural Law is the uncaused cause of the nature of existence from the Naturalist perspective. If existence is infinite, then Natural Law is infinite. Cause and effect would be mutual characteristics of the physical nature of all possible universes and multiverses. Of course, the Natural Laws we observe for our universe are not likely the ultimate Natural Law of all possible universes or multiverses. If you are a Theist like I am I define the ultimate Natural Law as the nature of God's Creation.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostAnd uncaused cause requires an uncaused existence. So either the uncaused cause and the uncaused existence are one and the same uncaused. Or the uncaused existence precedes the uncaused cause [Which I do not beleive is the case].Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostWell . . . a bit confusing, but Natural Law can possibly be the uncaused cause of the nature of our physical existence, and our physical existence can possibly by infinite. Based on the objective evidence there is no other possible alternative, except to 'believe' there is another uncaused cause.Last edited by 37818; 01-26-2015, 07:46 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNo, Natural Law is the uncaused cause of the nature of existence from the Naturalist perspective. If existence is infinite, then Natural Law is infinite. Cause and effect would be mutual characteristics of the physical nature of all possible universes and multiverses. Of course, the Natural Laws we observe for our universe are not likely the ultimate Natural Law of all possible universes or multiverses. If you are a Theist like I am I define the ultimate Natural Law as the nature of God's Creation.Originally posted by 37818 View PostAnd uncaused cause requires an uncaused existence. So either the uncaused cause and the uncaused existence are one and the same uncaused. Or the uncaused existence precedes the uncaused cause [Which I do not beleive is the case].Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostWell . . . a bit confusing, but Natural Law can possibly be the uncaused cause of the nature of our physical existence, and our physical existence can possibly by infinite. Based on the objective evidence there is no other possible alternative, except to 'believe' there is another uncaused cause.Originally posted by 37818 View PostThere is a difference between existence and a cause. Causes, caused and uncaused are contingent on existing. Existence caused is contingent on a cause, whether the cause is caused or uncaused. But an uncaused existence is not contingent on anything. An uncaused cause is contingent on an uncased existence. Even though they are the one and the same uncaused entity. And uncaused cause has two different natures. Uncaused being eternal. And cause is always finite and temporal, even as it would be infinite and eternal being uncaused. And uncaused cause is two things being one. Again, both eternal and temporal at the same time.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThere is a difference between existence and a cause. Causes, caused and uncaused are contingent on existing. Existence caused is contingent on a cause, whether the cause is caused or uncaused. But an uncaused existence is not contingent on anything. An uncaused cause is contingent on an uncased existence. Even though they are the one and the same uncaused entity. And uncaused cause has two different natures. Uncaused being eternal. And cause is always finite and temporal, even as it would be infinite and eternal being uncaused. And uncaused cause is two things being one. Again, both eternal and temporal at the same time.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNatural Law is not contingent on anything that can be objectively determined.
Natural Law is not existence.
From the Naturalist perspective it is simply the uncaused cause of all of existence.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostAnd cause is always finite and temporal, even as it would be infinite and eternal being uncaused.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell let me answer your question with a question to you. Would you say that definitions of things are things in themselves?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostYes. Now there are kinds of things, real and not real, actual and abstract, etc. But only existence is itself existence.Last edited by JimL; 01-27-2015, 05:54 PM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI think you contradict yourself in suggesting that not real things are real things and that not actual or abstract things are actual. If they are not real or actual, then they are not real or actual.
Nothingness as a thing is not a thing. It is not a thing, being no thing, nothing.Last edited by 37818; 01-28-2015, 10:59 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostSo you are arguing there are no non real things. A unicorn is not a thing? It is certainly regarded as a non real thing is it not?
Nothingness as a thing is not a thing. It is not a thing, being no thing, nothing.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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