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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Is "Why is there something rather than nothing?" a legitimate question?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    God is not nothing.
    Are you suggesting that God created out of himself? If so, isn't that just a form of pantheism?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      Are you suggesting that God created out of himself? If so, isn't that just a form of pantheism?
      It would be closer to Panentheism, with some serious qualifications.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        God is not nothing.
        Look at the entire citation as to what Creatio Exnhilo means in terms of theological concept of 'absolutely nothing.'
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          Look at the entire citation as to what Creatio Exnhilo means in terms of theological concept of 'absolutely nothing.'
          Yes, nothing external to God, no preexisting material. Again, God is not nothing
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Yes, nothing external to God, no preexisting material. Again,
            This is as I defined Creatio Exnhilo


            God is not nothing
            I never asserted God is nothing. What sort of argument are you proposing, other then confusion?
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              It would be closer to Panentheism, with some serious qualifications.
              If what you're proposing is Panentheism, then shunya is correct, you're not proposing creation Ex Nihilo, which is fine, if that wasn't your intent.

              So, just to confirm, you don't believe in creation Ex Nihilo? You're a panentheist (with some serious qualifications)?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                If what you're proposing is Panentheism, then shunya is correct, you're not proposing creation Ex Nihilo, which is fine, if that wasn't your intent.
                Correct, my position may actually be creatio ex deo.

                So, just to confirm, you don't believe in creation Ex Nihilo? You're a panentheist (with some serious qualifications)?
                Not sure yet. Still working through it.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Correct, my position may actually be creatio ex deo.



                  Not sure yet. Still working through it.
                  Got it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Shunya, I don't think I have a problem with either Creatio ex Deo or an eternal universe or matrix. In asking why the universe exists, I'm mostly looking for some kind of "necessary reason" for there for to be a Creator. But in order to ask the question, nothingness has to be a coherent concept and I guess BP showed me why it isn't (unless we appeal to some kind of "fuzzy logic?")
                    O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

                    A neat video of dead languages!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                      Are you suggesting that God created out of himself? If so, isn't that just a form of pantheism?
                      No, even though God did not fashion the universe out of a pre-existing substance, He is in fact the ultimate cause of its existence.

                      And yes I recognize that God exists in a higher degree than ordinary things. He has necessary existence, whereas anything else has contingent existence.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        And yes I recognize that God exists in a higher degree than ordinary things. He has necessary existence, whereas anything else has contingent existence.
                        Why can't the universe itself have necessary existence?
                        O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

                        A neat video of dead languages!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                          No, even though God did not fashion the universe out of a pre-existing substance, He is in fact the ultimate cause of its existence.

                          And yes I recognize that God exists in a higher degree than ordinary things. He has necessary existence, whereas anything else has contingent existence.
                          Hello Leonhard. The question you answered was actually addressed to Seer. Did you answer it because you have the same train of thought about creation as Seer does? Just to reiterate, shunya stated the following:

                          "Some Christians argue that God Created the universe from absolutely nothing."

                          To which Seer replied,

                          "God is not nothing."

                          This seemed to suggest to me that Seer believes that the universe is made out of some sort of God...stuff. I suppose. To which he kinda confirmed, though admitted he's still working on it.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            Hello Leonhard. The question you answered was actually addressed to Seer. Did you answer it because you have the same train of thought about creation as Seer does? Just to reiterate, shunya stated the following:

                            "Some Christians argue that God Created the universe from absolutely nothing."

                            To which Seer replied,

                            "God is not nothing."

                            This seemed to suggest to me that Seer believes that the universe is made out of some sort of God...stuff. I suppose. To which he kinda confirmed, though admitted he's still working on it.
                            I suppose it's possible that God has some sort of infinite energy in His being that he was able to translate into the first few subatomic particles (I think the Zohar teaches something to that effect regarding us being made of "sparks of God's essence"). That wouldn't be Pantheism because there is infinitely more energy left with God than is used to create.

                            It doesn't address the question of corruptibility, however.
                            Last edited by Kelp(p); 11-11-2014, 07:25 PM.
                            O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

                            A neat video of dead languages!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I find it interesting that not one post attempted to answer the question. Instead everyone went off on some side track.
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                                I find it interesting that not one post attempted to answer the question. Instead everyone went off on some side track.
                                I think the answer is yes. Also, I like William Craig's description of "nothing" (quoted here from his debate with Lawrence Krauss),

                                Source: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/life-the-universe-and-nothing-why-is-there-something-rather-than-nothing

                                The great German philosopher and scientist Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz famously wrote, “The first question which should rightly be asked is: Why is there something rather than nothing?” Before we can even begin to address Leibniz’s question it’s important that we clarify the concepts involved.

                                The word nothing is a term of universal negation. It means not anything. So, for example, if I say, “I had nothing for lunch today,” what I mean is that I didn’t have anything for lunch today. If you read in an account of World War II that “nothing stopped the German advance from sweeping across Belgium,” what it means is that the German advance was not stopped by anything. If a theologian tells you that “God has created the universe out of nothing,” he means that God’s creation of the universe was not out of anything. The word nothing, to repeat, is simply a term of universal negation, meaning not anything.

                                There’s a whole series of similar words in English that involve universal negation: nobody means not anybody, none means not one, nowhere means not anywhere, no place means not in any place.

                                © Copyright Original Source

                                Last edited by Adrift; 11-11-2014, 09:38 PM.

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