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  • #46
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    All of that!?!?!? was the reason for my responses.

    Try staying on topic and let's talk about Allan Watts, beginning with citation at the beginning of the thread.
    Being caught in weaseling the only thing to do is try to avoid the answer. I very clearly pointed out that you were ignoring what is going on in the world. What ever the supposed teaching is. Both Hindus and Buddhists are expressing violent hatred in the real world.

    I have been caught before, it is my fault for getting into discussions with dishonest posters.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
      Indeed I was not making such a connection. I responded quite clearly to " I have studied Hinduism and Buddhism for many years, and never found them to hate anything." I told you that before and you are just ignoring the truth.
      Ignoring what 'truth?'

      Summary, repeat

      Actually, I will stand by my original statement. The doctrines and beliefs in scripture and history of Vedic traditions and Buddhism is non-adversarial, and yes by these beliefs and traditions they do NOT hate anything. You can go back to Krishna's dialogue with Arjuna on the reasons of the warriors duty, and go forward through the Bahagvagita and Buddhist history and scripture, and find that this is at the very foundation of these belief systems. No Dualism and hatred of evil is inherent in these beliefs.

      It is true, of course, that in history Hindu (Vedic tradtions) and Buddhist were involved in conflicts. The over all context through history was non-violent, particularly true of Buddhism.

      Examples such as the monks of Enryaku-ji of Japan are not very good examples, because first you have a mixed culture of Buddhism and Shinto warrior traditions, and not representative of Buddhism.

      Part of the problem is this has nothing to do with Allan Watts, nor the citation at the beginning of the thread.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        So what?!?!?! The monks of Enryku-ji is not representative of Buddhist history, in fact they are only one sect of Japanese Buddhism, it is relevant representative, because western religions are 10 fold or more more violent then Buddhism.
        Ummm, Tendai is one of the most prestigious Buddhist sects in Japan. I would think they would have some baring on the historical as well as current state of Buddhism in general (the Enryaku-ji is practically a mob front these days). And the comparative violence of Western religions is hardly relevant. I'm not trying to saying that Hindus and Buddhists are a bunch of violent thugs. They do a lot of good. I just think you idealize them too much, especially when you act as though all their violence is somehow provoked by the West.

        But anyway, I suppose it's my fault for starting this rabbit hole by assuming Watts is a respected authority on Buddhism.



        Might as well just return to the central topic now.
        O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.

        A neat video of dead languages!

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          Ignoring what 'truth?'
          The truth that you did not respond to what I asked, but what you would have preferred to ask. My post was quite clear and you played weasle.
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
            The truth that you did not respond to what I asked, but what you would have preferred to ask. My post was quite clear and you played weasle.
            Name calling will get you nowhere fast in an off topic subject, but If you ask the question again I will answer it the best I can.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Kelp(p) View Post
              Ummm, Tendai is one of the most prestigious Buddhist sects in Japan. I would think they would have some baring on the historical as well as current state of Buddhism in general (the Enryaku-ji is practically a mob front these days). And the comparative violence of Western religions is hardly relevant. I'm not trying to saying that Hindus and Buddhists are a bunch of violent thugs. They do a lot of good. I just think you idealize them too much, especially when you act as though all their violence is somehow provoked by the West.
              Over statement on Enryaku-ji in relation to Buddhism as a whole, especially in a Shinto dominated synchronistic culture. It is like saying the Italian Mafia represents Christianity. It really is not the subject ot the thread.

              But anyway, I suppose it's my fault for starting this rabbit hole by assuming Watts is a respected authority on Buddhism.
              Allan Watts bounced around Christianity, Taoism and some Buddhism in his writings. He did express some insight into the nature of Taoism and Buddhism, but he did not express himself as an academic authority. Actually the citation was the subject and the nature of how Allan Watts expressed his views on religion based on the context of the citation.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #52
                Yes it is myth. I do believe that the universe is the physical body of God. in other words even our physical world with all its pain and suffering is part of Gods kingdom.I believe the Word or the utterance of God that all things owe there existence too is pure and beyond the duality of our world. In our world we have to experience some hell to truly appreciate heaven. If all one knew was heavenly bliss would that soul appreciate it if it was all it ever experienced?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  Indeed I was not making such a connection. I responded quite clearly to " I have studied Hinduism and Buddhism for many years, and never found them to hate anything." All the violence seen was not related to hate?
                  The scripture of Vedic culture and Buddhism does not describe nor project a conflict between good and evil, nor us versus them theology (eg; the Book of Revelation), and the degree they consider the physical world an illusion and impermanent there is no context within the scripture for hatred, tolerance, nor intolerance of others based on difference of beliefs. Shinto of Japan on the other hand has its roots as a warrior religion.

                  Yes, human nature itself regardless of religion nor belief system may harbor and act out hatred, but the fundamental belief of these religions does not support it.
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-19-2017, 05:47 PM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
                    Yes it is myth. I do believe that the universe is the physical body of God. in other words even our physical world with all its pain and suffering is part of Gods kingdom.I believe the Word or the utterance of God that all things owe there existence too is pure and beyond the duality of our world. In our world we have to experience some hell to truly appreciate heaven. If all one knew was heavenly bliss would that soul appreciate it if it was all it ever experienced?
                    I would not consider the physical universe the physical body of God, because that would e pantheistic. I believe it is a physical Creation by God that reflects eternally the attributes of God. Not exactly the the same, but more like panentheism. The nature of God remains ultimately unknowable, and apophatic. I elieve we can only know the attributes of God through Revelation and the attributes of nature.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment

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