Koran inspired by God

[JillPole]

I was talking to a girl here at work about Mormonism. She wanted to know why Christians were so unaccepting of the Mormon faith since it's basically the same. I explained to her the difference, which lead to a discussion of other religions closely tied to Christianity. When we got to Islam, she said the Koran was written down by Muhammad as God spoke to him. Whether it's correct or not by any other standards didn't matter, simply the fact that she believes God spoke to him influenced everything from then out. Can anyone tell me a good way to handle this situation? Once someone says, "God said it" it's hard to refute, because who knows what God said? I know God wouldn't disagree with himself or even say things that aren't within a consistent character. But again, it's hard to tell some one what God did or did not say.

I've read a lot of the Koran, but I don't really know much about how it was written or the legitimacy of the content. So any help in understanding the book would be appreciated.

[ih8censorship]

what was her religeious background? was she mormon or muslim? if shes mormon id ask and/or tell her about conflicts between islam,christianity (more specificaly the type you and i are in), and mormonism.

[JillPole]

She actually is Catholic, but shes not very convinced that she likes it. Shes come to Bible study with me a few times. I think shes like looking for a new religion. Also, not that the topic isn't a completely valid one, but she's sort of slow. It's actually a physical handicap, so I don't know how much she'd actually understand.

[Ken1Burton]

Jim.

Most of Christianity will claim the Quran, was not inspired by God, and give many what would seem to be sound reasons for this. What seems to be Sound, Not always is.

God hides things, He speaks in Similitudes, He spoke through Jesus in Parables. He erected a barrier so to speak, so that you can not get through till you seek Him with your whole heart.

Part of your problem is many Catholics know very little of the actual Scriptures, which is needed to explain the Truths contained in the Bible. It has only been in the last few years that they were allowed to read a bible, They were directed to the Cathochism. (spelling?)

God has many things hidden from the Christian Church they have yet to see and accept. One is the Lying Spirit God sent in 1-Kings 22:21/24.

The Similitude is to have King Ahab go up and die in battle, and God is looking for someone to persuade him to go. It is really for getting Jesus to go up and die at Calvary of His own freewill.

(1KINGS 22:20) And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he
may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner,
and another said on that manner. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:21) And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the
Lord, and said, I will persuade him. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:22) And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said,
I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all
his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail
also: go forth, and do so. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:23) Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying
spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath
spoken evil concerning thee. (KJV)

All the prophecies are AS LIES TILL FULFILLED. This is the Lying spirit. The Spirit of Truth could not come till Jesus went to the Cross, or fulfilled the prophecies.

Now applied to the Quran: "If any were to preach, That Allah would beget a Son (seen in a future tense) They preach a monsterous falsehood."

Because it is seen as a lie until fulfilled, a Monsterous falsehood it is. Had it been written "If any were to preach ALLAH HAS BEGOTTEN A SON," it would not be able to be seen as a falsehood, but Truth.


His (Jesus) days are seen as the days of Heaven. The day is the day of the cross when all prophecies are fulfilled. But the day is made as 7 days, so as 7 heavens, or the Heavens are RENT APART.

(DEUTERONOMY 11:21) That your days may be multiplied, and the days
of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your
fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth. (KJV)

(ISAIAH 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light
of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the
light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach
of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)

The day of the cross is when all prophecies are fulfilled, the day is the only day which would fulfill Isaiah 30:26 when God healed them.

Now, applied to the Quran: "If Allah were to beget a Son, the Heavens would RENT APART." THEY DID.

Jesus is David's son, raised to be the Son of God, God swore to this in His Holiness. The day of the cross the BODY OF CHRIST is seen born in Psalms 2:6/7 with mankind in that Body.

(PSALMS 2:6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (KJV)
(PSALMS 2:7) I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me,
Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee. (KJV)

Now, applied to the Quran: "Allah would not need to beget a Son, He could just DECREE ONE." HE DID. He decreed David's son as His Own as He foretold.

(PSALMS 89:34) My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing
that is gone out of my lips. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:35) Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie
unto David. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:36) His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as
the sun before me. (KJV)

The Promise to raise up David's son to be the Son of God in in 2-Samuel 7:11/14. The house is the day of the cross built as a place prepared for us to dwell in, or in the Body of Christ.

Mohammad said "If Allah were to beget a Son, I would be the First to worship Him." Mohammad has already done that, No doubt. the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

Seeing this is World without end, there is no LAST person, for there is no end of new people coming to know God. The Old world ended the day of the cross. The similitude is the day as 4 6-hour periods like 4 beasts with 6-wings.

Old Heaven was sunset to Midnight, Old earth was midnight to sunrise, Heaven and earth fled from His face seen as the face of a Man on the third beast with 6-wings which was Sunrise to noon, New earth, Noon to sunset as new Heaven.

The Beginning is at Calvary, (Isaiah 46:10 He declareth the end from the beginning=It is finished)

The Old world had no beginning, it was a similitude for the day of the cross.

Ken

[ih8censorship]

Also, not that the topic isn't a completely valid one, but she's sort of slow. It's actually a physical handicap, so I don't know how much she'd actually understand.

you know, just because someones body doesnt function right doesnt mean their mind also doesnt.

[JillPole]

Ken1Burton: Are you saying you believe the Koran was actually inspired by God? That was an interesting post... but I think it confused me slightly.

Kenny: No, I meant her brain is physically slow, not her body. She has... oh I forget the name of it now. But that doesn't matter.

[Zeluvia]

I do think Muslim's believe Muhammed was a prophet of God, and as all the old testament prophets, the writings were revealed to him by God.

I do think the Mormon's believe the same about about the Testament of Jesus Christ as revealed to John Smith.

What religion would have a basis if the core doctrine wasn't revealed from God? Doesn't that pretty much define the word "religion"?

[shunyadragon]

Jim.

Most of Christianity will claim the Quran, was not inspired by God, and give many what would seem to be sound reasons for this. What seems to be Sound, Not always is.

God hides things, He speaks in Similitudes, He spoke through Jesus in Parables. He erected a barrier so to speak, so that you can not get through till you seek Him with your whole heart.

Part of your problem is many Catholics know very little of the actual Scriptures, which is needed to explain the Truths contained in the Bible. It has only been in the last few years that they were allowed to read a bible, They were directed to the Cathochism. (spelling?)

God has many things hidden from the Christian Church they have yet to see and accept. One is the Lying Spirit God sent in 1-Kings 22:21/24.

The Similitude is to have King Ahab go up and die in battle, and God is looking for someone to persuade him to go. It is really for getting Jesus to go up and die at Calvary of His own freewill.

(1KINGS 22:20) And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he
may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner,
and another said on that manner. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:21) And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the
Lord, and said, I will persuade him. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:22) And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said,
I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all
his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail
also: go forth, and do so. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:23) Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying
spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath
spoken evil concerning thee. (KJV)

All the prophecies are AS LIES TILL FULFILLED. This is the Lying spirit. The Spirit of Truth could not come till Jesus went to the Cross, or fulfilled the prophecies.

Now applied to the Quran: "If any were to preach, That Allah would beget a Son (seen in a future tense) They preach a monsterous falsehood."

Because it is seen as a lie until fulfilled, a Monsterous falsehood it is. Had it been written "If any were to preach ALLAH HAS BEGOTTEN A SON," it would not be able to be seen as a falsehood, but Truth.


His (Jesus) days are seen as the days of Heaven. The day is the day of the cross when all prophecies are fulfilled. But the day is made as 7 days, so as 7 heavens, or the Heavens are RENT APART.

(DEUTERONOMY 11:21) That your days may be multiplied, and the days
of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your
fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth. (KJV)

(ISAIAH 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light
of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the
light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach
of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)

The day of the cross is when all prophecies are fulfilled, the day is the only day which would fulfill Isaiah 30:26 when God healed them.

Now, applied to the Quran: "If Allah were to beget a Son, the Heavens would RENT APART." THEY DID.

Jesus is David's son, raised to be the Son of God, God swore to this in His Holiness. The day of the cross the BODY OF CHRIST is seen born in Psalms 2:6/7 with mankind in that Body.

(PSALMS 2:6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (KJV)
(PSALMS 2:7) I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me,
Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee. (KJV)

Now, applied to the Quran: "Allah would not need to beget a Son, He could just DECREE ONE." HE DID. He decreed David's son as His Own as He foretold.

(PSALMS 89:34) My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing
that is gone out of my lips. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:35) Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie
unto David. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:36) His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as
the sun before me. (KJV)

The Promise to raise up David's son to be the Son of God in in 2-Samuel 7:11/14. The house is the day of the cross built as a place prepared for us to dwell in, or in the Body of Christ.

Mohammad said "If Allah were to beget a Son, I would be the First to worship Him." Mohammad has already done that, No doubt. the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

Seeing this is World without end, there is no LAST person, for there is no end of new people coming to know God. The Old world ended the day of the cross. The similitude is the day as 4 6-hour periods like 4 beasts with 6-wings.

Old Heaven was sunset to Midnight, Old earth was midnight to sunrise, Heaven and earth fled from His face seen as the face of a Man on the third beast with 6-wings which was Sunrise to noon, New earth, Noon to sunset as new Heaven.

The Beginning is at Calvary, (Isaiah 46:10 He declareth the end from the beginning=It is finished)

The Old world had no beginning, it was a similitude for the day of the cross.

Ken

All these things look good from inside Christianity, because a heavy spread of peanut butter is used cover the cracks and the inconsistencies in the Bible. From the outside Judaism and Christianity do not have a consistent relationship and charactor. Many of the prophecies cited by Christianity are heavily shoozed to fit using more peanut butter with a high fog index. Many of these problems have been brought out in great detail in prophecy threads.

[shunyadragon]

I do think Muslim's believe Muhammed was a prophet of God, and as all the old testament prophets, the writings were revealed to him by God.

I do think the Mormon's believe the same about about the Testament of Jesus Christ as revealed to John Smith.

What religion would have a basis if the core doctrine wasn't revealed from God? Doesn't that pretty much define the word "religion"?

I do not think that defines "religion". Claims by religions are highly subjective in nature and the differences that different religions use to consider themselves the only 'true way' breakdown underscrutiny. For example there are more differences between Christianity and Judaism, than Judaism and Islam.

[Sheepdog]

first i would note that a God who is omniscient and blantantly lies is not worth worshipping (if God can lie, how would we know he is not in fact the Devil?). Then, i'd point out the most obvious factual errors in the Book of Mormon and the Quran.

not too tough, IMO

[shunyadragon]

first i would note that a God who is omniscient and blantantly lies is not worth worshipping (if God can lie, how would we know he is not in fact the Devil?). Then, i'd point out the most obvious factual errors in the Book of Mormon and the Quran.

not too tough, IMO

I would respond and point out the obvious factual errors in the Bible and show that the Koran is more like Judaism than Christianity.

Not too tough, IMO.

[Zeluvia]

So your arguement is "Our God is better than your God"?

My Dad can beat up your Dad?

Doesn't that imply a Polytheistic veiw?

[shunyadragon]

So your arguement is "Our God is better than your God"?

My Dad can beat up your Dad?

Doesn't that imply a Polytheistic veiw?

According to history and what I hear many Christians say when they are talking to believers from other religions.

In the Ten Commandments God begins the argument - 'Put no other God before Me.'

It is common for Christians to say 'My God . . . . your God.' in conversations with other religions.

[Sheepdog]

I would respond and point out the obvious factual errors in the Bible...

i haven't seen any. i've seen a lot alledged by snotty people like yourself, but all have been shown to not be errors, or were at least indeterminant.

... and show that the Koran is more like Judaism than Christianity.

Not too tough, IMO.

you could try, but not sure what's the point.

So your arguement is "Our God is better than your God"?

and i suppose your argument is "there is [no] God because i say so." let's not oversimplify, please.

My Dad can beat up your Dad?

this presumes that nonexistant dads are possible to beat up.

Doesn't that imply a Polytheistic veiw?

no. it's called granting for the sake of argument. skeptics do this all the time with theists, and vice versa. what you do is you grant for the sake of argument that a few of your oponent's premises are true. then you use them to destroy the rest of his argument. it can be very effective if done right.

[shunyadragon]

i haven't seen any. i've seen a lot alledged by snotty people like yourself, but all have been shown to not be errors, or were at least indeterminant.

I haven't seen any errors in the Koran. i've seen a lot alledged by snotty people like yourself, but all have been shown to not be errors, or were at least indeterminant.

. . . you could try, but not sure what's the point.

Less conflicts and contradictions. The Koran is more like Judaism.