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Animals Doing What Animals Do...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    The title alone telegraphed its trajectory. To begin from the standpoint that chimps rend competitive chimp penises, and so we should, too, if we live in a godless universe, is a pretty sad launching point for a conversation.
    It is not about what we should do - it is about what we actually do. The Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking are perfectly natural acts. As natural as one group of chimps slaughtering another group - so the question is, why does one act cause you moral outrage while the other doesn't? When monkeys do it, well that is just nature. When humans do it - oh the horror!!! Irrational...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by whag View Post
      The title alone telegraphed its trajectory. To begin from the standpoint that chimps rend competitive chimp penises, and so we should, too, if we live in a godless universe, is a pretty sad launching point for a conversation.


      As I've pointed out in previous threads, modern atheist behavior is about as dysgenic as you can get. Atheists are pathetic, weak, mewling, crybaby losers despite inheriting the greatest civilization in the history of the planet. Compare Britain today, which imports muslims to rape their teenage girls, with Imperial Britain. There's no question that the British then were a very successful organism whereas the British today are a laughingstock that don't even deserve to be called a shadow of their former self.

      While going on manic killing sprees isn't very productive behavior, the ethics taught to us by what appears to be an extremely progressive atheist culture are probably just as bad. From a materialistic perspective it makes perfect sense to band up with those closest to you and cooperate with each other whereas outgroups should be subjugated, destroyed and used whenever possible.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        It is not about what we should do - it is about what we actually do. The Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking are perfectly natural acts. As natural as one group of chimps slaughtering another group - so the question is, why does one act cause you moral outrage while the other doesn't? When monkeys do it, well that is just nature. When humans do it - oh the horror!!! Irrational...
        All I know is I'm gonna shield my gonads when you discover God doesn't exist.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post


          As I've pointed out in previous threads, modern atheist behavior is about as dysgenic as you can get. Atheists are pathetic, weak, mewling, crybaby losers despite inheriting the greatest civilization in the history of the planet. Compare Britain today, which imports muslims to rape their teenage girls, with Imperial Britain. There's no question that the British then were a very successful organism whereas the British today are a laughingstock that don't even deserve to be called a shadow of their former self.

          While going on manic killing sprees isn't very productive behavior, the ethics taught to us by what appears to be an extremely progressive atheist culture are probably just as bad. From a materialistic perspective it makes perfect sense to band up with those closest to you and cooperate with each other whereas outgroups should be subjugated, destroyed and used whenever possible.
          Paranoia level: seanD

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by whag View Post
            Paranoia level: seanD
            What paranoia? I'm merely describing the relative weakness and patheticness of atheists compared to our glorious ancestors.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              What paranoia? I'm merely describing the relative weakness and patheticness of atheists compared to our glorious ancestors.
              Paranoia level: Epoekter

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                Nope.
                Then what does your post mean? Out of all the behaviors that promote success in population groups, you choose some that you feel are 'ethical' and call them that?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  Then what does your post mean? Out of all the behaviors that promote success in population groups, you choose some that you feel are 'ethical' and call them that?
                  Nope. Much has been written on this topic by many gifted philosophers. I choose not to have your words in my mouth. I simply say there are many ways to approach ethics and morality. You may feel that a God is necessary. I do not. I'm sure we're both intelligent and reasonable. I respect your decision. I'm sure it's based on lots of reading and thinking. So is mine. I doubt whether any thread started by Seer can ever lead to anything good. I shouldn't have said anything at all. My mistake.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    How does that change anything?
                    I am not sure I get your point.

                    All through history we see one tribe or one nation or one country attacking another. As you say, animals doing what animals do (social animals anyway). This is just what we would expect if evolution is true. Some of these tribes/nations/countries claim their god is on their side. The Hebrews did, the Nazis did, and many, many others too, with many, many different gods. Apparent that is what smart and social animals do.
                    What's the big deal - just animals doing what animals do.
                    Correct.

                    No god necessary.
                    My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
                      I am not sure I get your point.

                      All through history we see one tribe or one nation or one country attacking another. As you say, animals doing what animals do (social animals anyway). This is just what we would expect if evolution is true. Some of these tribes/nations/countries claim their god is on their side. The Hebrews did, the Nazis did, and many, many others too, with many, many different gods. Apparent that is what smart and social animals do.

                      Correct.

                      No god necessary.
                      God is necessary though. Otherwise the tribe collapses from this:



                      to this

                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        It is not about what we should do - it is about what we actually do. The Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking are perfectly natural acts. As natural as one group of chimps slaughtering another group - so the question is, why does one act cause you moral outrage while the other doesn't? When monkeys do it, well that is just nature. When humans do it - oh the horror!!! Irrational...
                        Poor seer - same old tiresome, intellectually dishonest mantra! It’s NOT about what we actually do at all as a general rule; that's just your chronic delusion.

                        What we “actually do”, despite the gross aberrations such as the Rape of Nanking, The Crusades, The Inquisitions and Salem Witch-Burnings, is develop and sustain highly complex social communities, maintain law and order via legislation and legal systems and generally behave like the altruistic, cooperative social creatures that we have evolved to be via natural selection.

                        IF the “Rape of Nanking, The Crusades, The Inquisitions and Salem Witch-Burnings” et al, were what we “naturally” do we would regard such things as the norm, but we don’t. We recognize them as social aberrations - and, in more recent times, set up bodies such as the UN and The International Court of Justice to deal with such atrocities.
                        Last edited by Tassman; 11-18-2014, 04:29 AM.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by whag View Post
                          All I know is I'm gonna shield my gonads when you discover God doesn't exist.
                          Well since He does exist your family jewels will remain safe.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
                            I am not sure I get your point.

                            All through history we see one tribe or one nation or one country attacking another. As you say, animals doing what animals do (social animals anyway). This is just what we would expect if evolution is true. Some of these tribes/nations/countries claim their god is on their side. The Hebrews did, the Nazis did, and many, many others too, with many, many different gods. Apparent that is what smart and social animals do.
                            My point is that I question the moral outrage that I find in many non-theistic circles. Whag is a perfect example of this. And the fact that most atheists I have know really do intuitively believe that something is deeply wrong in the world, something really wrong with much of human behavior. We are uncomfortable with our environment - I find that strange - would a fish, if he could, complain that he is wet?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                              Nope. Much has been written on this topic by many gifted philosophers. I choose not to have your words in my mouth. I simply say there are many ways to approach ethics and morality. You may feel that a God is necessary. I do not. I'm sure we're both intelligent and reasonable. I respect your decision. I'm sure it's based on lots of reading and thinking. So is mine. I doubt whether any thread started by Seer can ever lead to anything good. I shouldn't have said anything at all. My mistake.
                              Yes pancreasman, there are many gifted atheist philosophers. I recently watch a number of talks by Dr. Sam Harris concerning his new moral philosophy. Very good. But this is the point, all these ethical ideas are an attempt to change or modify human behavior - the question remains - why do they want or need to change behaviors that are perfectly natural? Why do they believe that there is something wrong?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                My point is that I question the moral outrage that I find in many non-theistic circles. Whag is a perfect example of this. And the fact that most atheists I have know really do intuitively believe that something is deeply wrong in the world, something really wrong with much of human behavior. We are uncomfortable with our environment - I find that strange - would a fish, if he could, complain that he is wet?
                                So your argument is that you only find the Rape of Nanjing to be morally wrong because of your religion. Without your religion, you would find it morally acceptable? And I suppose conversely the atrocities committed by the Hebrews, which were sanctioned by God, you would say were morally acceptable. Is that right?

                                You seem to be arguing then that what is right is whatever God says is right, and what is wrong is whatever God say is wrong. Is that right?

                                Therefore, it would follow that you think people are not capable of telling right from wrong. Is that right?

                                My view is the opposite. I believe that humans are able to tell right from wrong. This sets them apart from fish, chimps, etc. This means that when we do morally wrong we are culpable in a way that fish and chimps are not.

                                I think murder is wrong because of something intrinsic in the act, and not depending on whether a god has decided it is.

                                I think slavery is wrong because of something intrinsic in the act. I think that this is something mankind's collective morality has developed over centuries (perhaps helped by improved technology). I do not think slavery is right because the Christian god says it. And nor do Christians nowadays.
                                My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

                                Comment

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