About Psalm 137

[JohnnyP]

You are a master of misinterpretation, aren't you?

And where do you get the idea that anything an atheist states on any topic (religious or not) is wrong by default?

I didn't say that, but who are The Arabs? They aren't Jews, but they may be Christians, like CowPoke said, "I have quite a few Arab Christian friends."

It's like saying, "Them there N-Words sure like their fried chicken and watermelon."

[JohnnyP]

Given what a giant misogynist Jerome was, claiming that Peter must have left his wife before he died so that he could have "washed away the stain of his married life by the blood of his martyrdom," I have a hard time trusting anything that the guy has to say about Scripture.

Who cares, it's just another source to consider. I was asked for sources if you even read the entire thread.

[JohnnyP]

You would need to understand the history of Israel to grasp that, Johnny.

That's not just ignorant, it's PROFOUNDLY ignorant, and a HORRIBLE analogy. The fact that this even comes to your dark foolish mind is quite disturbing.

And once again, I suppose you think all Arab Palestinians are Muslim and none Christian. That's ignorant.

[pancreasman]

You Christians don't need any help tearing each other apart.

[Kelp(p)]

Who cares, it's just another source to consider. I was asked for sources if you even read the entire thread.

If you can say that CP should not have a quote from Golda Meir just because she was an atheist, then I can point out that Jerome was an anti-sex, woman hating nutcase who doesn't deserve to be quoted on Scripture.

[Kelp(p)]

You Christians don't need any help tearing each other apart.

And you secularists don't need any help practicing eugenics and setting up murderous dictatorial regimes

[Cow Poke]

And once again, I suppose you think all Arab Palestinians are Muslim and none Christian. That's ignorant.

And, once again, you'd have to be calling me a liar, as I have already stated I have numerous Arab Christians friends, and just spent some time with some of them in Israel just last year.

Did your momma ever drop you on your head when you were a baby?

[Cow Poke]

You Christians don't need any help tearing each other apart.

We love each other, Pman.... this is just for show.

Kinda reminds me of when the Gonzales brothers would get into a big fight, then an outsider would step in to break it up, and they'd both beat the living patooties out of him.

[Cow Poke]

I didn't say that, but who are The Arabs?

Dear Johnny,

This is where CONTEXT comes into play. Things like "who was Golda Meir" and what was the time period -- what was happening at the time? That gives you a clue into who, exactly, "The Arabs" were to whom she was referring. Those of us who know the history of Israel know that she is specifically talking about the Arabs who were committed to "wiping Israel off the face of the earth".

She was quite obviously NOT talking about peaceful Christian Arabs, or Arabs minding their own business, or 21st century Arabs. And all she was doing is pointing out that these particular Arabs - who were hell bent on the destruction of Israel - hated Israel more than they loved their own children.

I hope that helps.

Your friend,

CP

[Kelp(p)]

Dear Johnny,

This is where CONTEXT comes into play. Things like "who was Golda Meir" and what was the time period -- what was happening at the time? That gives you a clue into who, exactly, "The Arabs" were to whom she was referring. Those of us who know the history of Israel know that she is specifically talking about the Arabs who were committed to "wiping Israel off the face of the earth".

She was quite obviously NOT talking about peaceful Christian Arabs, or Arabs minding their own business, or 21st century Arabs. And all she was doing is pointing out that these particular Arabs - who were hell bent on the destruction of Israel - hated Israel more than they loved their own children.

I hope that helps.

Your friend,

CP

Sort of like if somebody says, "The Soviets invaded Afghanistan," they don't mean every single person in the Soviet Union nor are they indicting the innocent people of the Soviet Union who were treated unjustly by their state (including many Christians).

[One Bad Pig]

Given what a giant misogynist Jerome was, claiming that Peter must have left his wife before he died so that he could have "washed away the stain of his married life by the blood of his martyrdom," I have a hard time trusting anything that the guy has to say about Scripture.

Yes, that quote looks bad, and Jerome was hardly perfect. However, no context is given (and Dr. Schaff does not give a reference for the quote - only references to apparently similar statements). I also disagree with Mr. de Wit's characterization of Jerome's interpretation.

[Kelp(p)]

Yes, that quote looks bad, and Jerome was hardly perfect. However, no context is given (and Dr. Schaff does not give a reference for the quote - only references to apparently similar statements). I also disagree with Mr. de Wit's characterization of Jerome's interpretation.

I found the place where Rufinus accuses Jerome of it but still looking for the original. Let me read Against Jovian tonight and get back to you in the morning.

[Kelp(p)]

Ok, I just read Jerome's Letter to Oceanus. To sum up, he does describe marriage as a "stain" that cannot be washed away by baptism, but only in contrast to what he's arguing against. Oceanus is asking him if it is wrong to make a man bishop (a bishop must be "the husband of one wife" according to the books of 1 Timothy and of Titus) if he was married before his baptism, his first marriage ended, and he has since remarried before becoming bishop. Jerome points to a great bishop of Spain named Carterius who was married before baptism (I'm guessing that Carterius' wife died before he became Christian since Jerome doesn't bring up divorce) and remarried some time after his baptism but before becoming bishop.

Jerome is basically saying that in this case, the former marriage ought to be regarded as having gone out with the old man in baptism, not because it was a sin but because that was another life. Carterius had become a new creature in Christ. If Carterius' critics can't accuse him of any of the other sins a bishop must be blameless of in 1 Timothy 3- drunkenness, violence, covetousness, bad parenting, etc. then it isn't fair that they should blame him for having remarried since his baptism (and the fact that they do indicates that these people are not arguing in good faith).

Still looking for where and how Peter or martyrdom factors into this but things are looking up.

[Paprika]

A time to tear down and a time to build up.

[Cow Poke]

A time to eat turkey and a time to eat bacon.