Identity of the Great Whore of Babylon

[Jude3b]

Ross, part of what you say is true, but only part. Prophetic statements often liken a system to a city. For instance:

Rev. 11:1 ¶ Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

This is the introduction to a symbolic prophecy It was not the temple in Jerusalem because the temple had been destroyed in AD70 and John was writing in AD 96 and the Jews had been forbidden to set foot in Jerusalem on pain of instant death. It is a symbolic prophecy.

Rev. 11:2 “Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

The tine of forty two months is also symbolic,

Rev. 11:3 “And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

The two witnesses are the old and new testaments. The twelve hundred and sixty days and the forty two months refer to the 1260 years of papal persecution from 538 to 1798.

Rev. 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.

The two witnesses and lampstands are the light to illuminate the earth with the light of the gospel.

Rev. 11:5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.

This is a SYMBOLIC prophecy and must be interpreted as SYMBOLIC.

Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

MYSTICALLY is the clue here. The lord was crucified outside Jerusalem, but mystically, the mass crucifies the son of God afresh when the priest transforms the wafer into the body of Christ.

So your entire post is thrown in the trash heap.

Dear Mystically:

Please tell us what you mean when you say "The Lord was crucified mystically." Sure sounds physical and not mystical when you read about it in the Bible.

Lastly, what happened in 1798. What group started that year that fulfills your time frame for the 1260 years?

[Jude3b]

would someone...for the sake of clarity pleeeeeeeeeze define "christian"???

it seems to me, reading thru most of the forums here, that very few, and i do mean very few of the people here are...

as for the whore...well, i do believe it is the roman...hmmm, or should i say babylonian...religion.....

but more generally, the term sure could apply to all the "so-called' "christians' thru the years, who also persecuted the true church...

it would not take a very indepth study of history to see that there is a remnant of faithful followers of Jesus...and they have been persecuted by both the "catholic" and "protestant" 'church....as well as the pagans...

like Jesus said..."you shall know them by their fruits"...

Dear Preacherman:

What is a Christian?

A Christian is a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. They Believe On Him and fully trust and obey Him as their personal Lord and Savior.

[Joe Gofish]

My guess? Protestant Christianity; they're so eager to point a finger at the Roman Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon... perhaps they are really trying to divert attention away from themselves. Tee-hee, just kidding... then again, you never know do ya?

Well it may be the Baptist church they are still fighting all the time with one another,and they do believe in the calvin doctrine of once saved always saved and that doctrine will send you to hell

[MegaHertz]

So can we begin by asserting this woman to probably be located in Rome? Any objections? Comments?

It's Jerusalem as soon as satan takes control;

The city of Babylon is described in scripture;

Da:11:40: And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Da:11:41: He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

2Th:2:3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th:2:4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Re:11:7: And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Re:11:8: And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

None of the above come even close to describing anyplace but Jerusalem.

Before this last comment causes some emotions to rise let me just say the originally Holy City Jerusalem can't be called by that name if satan controls that ground. Babylon is satan's seat of 'power' and he is going to set it up where Jerusalem stands today.

[Jude3b]

First, the is no mill......in which we can have later debate. Now back to Babylon. First of all, the whole book in not about the church, it is about the 144,000 tribes of Israel as well. It is about those who overcome within the church and those Jews who keep the commandments during this time of trial.

We see John does in fact write a book unto the churches....

Re 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

But know we see John is to address a different audiance....

Re 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

9. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

You state that the above verse speaks of Rome?

To get the correct understanding of the seven heads/mountains we must first understand who the beast is.....

THE BEAST FROM THE SEA

The first beast mentioned in Revelation 13 is usually referred to as a “man”, the anti-christ, which is seen arising out of a “sea” of multitudes. But is this first beast even a man? And does this “sea” mentioned mean from a sea of people? This first beast represents the KINGDOM of the dragon which arises out of the abyss, the pit of hell. As the first beast is Satan and his kingdom to represent the Kingdom of God, the second beast is the man, the son of the first beast or better known as the “son of perdition”, the False Prophet, to resemble the Son of God, the True Prophet .

THE BEAST FROM THE EARTH

Rev 13:11,12 “And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon”.

As the “sea” represents Hell and where the first beast arises, now we see a second beast coming up out of the earth. Again we see a beast coming “up from” or from below to signify once again the abyss. He is seen as the king of the bottomless pit in Rev chapter 9 however this beast is referenced as coming up from the earth (Gen 2) as to signify a “man” , the son of the first beast, the son of perdition to be likened after the “Lamb” the Son of God.

This second beast is “like” a lamb as he gives his appearance as to being the one and only Lamb of God and he speaks like his father the devil. This counterfeit has “two horns” which symbolizes more than being evil or for looks as it represents a certain characteristic of this lamb. As we will see the 10 horns of the beast representing the “House of Israel”, these two horns represent the “House of Judah” where the Lamb originates.

Rev. 5:5,6 “…Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it has been slain, having seven horns….”.

Interesting to note that both Lambs are referenced as having a characteristic of a lion which is seen in the four beasts and both “roar” like a lion as Peter notes the devil roaring “as” a lion (1 Pt. 5:8). In addition of being from the tribe of Judah, we see “The Lamb” above also having seven horns which will be shown to parallel the seven heads of the beast. Furthermore, both have been slain !

Both are seen as Lambs
Both are referenced as Lions
Both are also Man
Both speak like their fathers
Both exercise the power of their fathers
Both cause to worship their father
Both are seen coming from heaven
Both perform miracles
Both have been slain and live
Both have seven heads
Both will have a “Mark” on their people
Both destroy those without this Mark
Both Have a number !!!

Now, after John describes this lamb in chapter 13 he then describes another Lamb immediately following in chapter 14. When one understands the counterfeit and by studying both then one can gain an insight of each Lamb as each should “mirror” the other. Look at the similarities; this will be the key to understanding the MARK of the beast.

Rev. 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on mount sion
with him an hundred and forty and four thousand
having “HIS” father’s name written in “THEIR” foreheads”.

Rev. 13

And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb
And he caused all to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads
Let him count the number of the beast: for it is a number of a man

We now must understand the four beasts.....

THE FOUR BEASTS

As we continue with the counterfeit we see below both involve four beasts;

The four beasts before the throne of God;

Rev. 4:7 “And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast was like a calf, and the third beast was like a face of a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle”.

The four beasts before the throne of Satan;

Rev. 13:2 “And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power , and his seat, and his great authority”.

Now, let’s include Daniel’s visions of Nebuchadnezzar for further insight.

God’s Kingdom Satan’s Kingdom Nebuchadnezzar’s Image

Lion Lion Head of Gold
Calf Bear Breast/Arms of silver
Face of a Man Leopard Bell/Thighs of brass
Flying Eagle Dragon Legs/Feet

The four beasts are “latter day” kings which co-exist during the time when Christ returns and sets up his Kingdom.

Dan. 2:44 “And in the days of these kings (speaking of the 10 kings) shall God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume ALL these kingdoms (Gold, Silver, Brass, Iron/Clay) and it shall stand for ever.

Dan. 7:11,12 “I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake….V12 As concerning the rest of the beasts (Lion, Bear, Leopard) they had their dominion taken away YET their lives were prolonged for a season and a time”.

Dan. 8:22,23 “Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his (Grecia) power (power is now from the dragon). And in the latter time of THEIR (Gold, Silver, Brass, Iron/Clay) kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up”.

It very important to understand that these four beasts (kingdoms) all exist during the latter days and the time of Christ’s return. Thus they cannot represent Grecia, Media, Persia, and a revived Roman Empire as is being taught today. Again it is time when God sets up a kingdom, when a fierce king stands up, and at a time when a beast speaks great words and is slain. These four kingdoms will rise up in the latter days after the events in Matt 24:7 and do not exist today. Likewise, the seven heads do not exist currently as they come up from the four beasts.

Now to the proper understanding of the seven heads......

THE SEVEN HEADS

Normally scholars want to include the four beasts along with Media, Persia, Greece, and a Roman Empire and come up with the seven heads but this would mean that these kings would have to exist over many centuries and as shown would counterdict scripture. If we look closely at the four beasts we see the seven heads !

Daniel’s Vision

Lion Has eagle wings Head #1
Bear Laying on it’s side Head #2
Leopard four Heads Head #3, #4, #5, #6
Beast Strong and terrible Head #7

Now to the correct understanding of the beast which was slain......

Now, in Revelation 13 we are told that one of the seven heads of the beast has been wounded unto death but lives. What does this mean? Resurrection? Resuscitation? Which head is wounded? Again, the teachers of the day want us to think that a world dictator suffers a head wound but miraculously lives and thus the world now follows this man beast. There is no scriptural evidence for this line of thought!

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of a great tree in Daniel chapter 4 gives us the answer. There we see this head of gold, the king, hew down and “wounded unto death” and “slain” and then the king becomes a “beast” of the field. However he is later restored by the roots which is symbolic of the 10 kings.

The head of Nebuchadnezzar Image slain and restored;

Nebuchadnezzar’s Image

Head of Gold - Hew down and made a beast, dominion taken
Breast/Arms of silver
Bell/Thighs of brass
Legs/Feet/Iron Clay - Kingdom is restored by it’s roots (ten toes)

Dan. 4:14 “He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree (head of gold), and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches: Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots (10 toes) in the earth, even with a band iron and brass…”.

Dan. 4:26 “And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule”.

The head of the Beast slain and restored;

Satan’s Kingdom

Lion - Dominion taken away, Dan 7:12.
Bear
Leopard
Dragon - Kingdom restored among his roots(ten kings).

Rev 13:3 “And I saw one of his heads (head #1, Lion) wounded to death and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast”.

Dan 7:8 “I considered the horns (four beasts), and, behold, there came up among them a little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns (beasts) plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were the eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things”.

We see in Rev. chapter 12 Satan and his kingdom being cast down ,“slain”, just as it is seen in the image of Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar typified Satan and we need to understand that it was his kingdom and not himself which is slain. Thus as is the kingdom of Satan, the kingdom not a man is slain and appears to be rendered powerless. The world will follow the beast not because he has a literal head wound which has been healed but because they believe it is Jesus Christ, I mean who could make war with him…...

Also notice that the deadly head wound was to the first beast in Rev 13 not to the second beast. The first beast we identified as Satan and his kingdom and is not a man. However, this kingdom now will be restored under the second beast, the False Prophet, which is the little horn and a man.

Rev 13:12 “…which dwell therein to worship the FIRST BEAST, whose deadly wound was healed”.

The head of God slain and restored;

God has also had a “head” wounded unto death. Who else is seen as a lion and was a “man” which has been slain and also lives and will be among his roots once restored? The Son of God.

Now let’s get the understanding of Rev. 17:10;

“And there are seven kings: five have fallen (Bear (1), Leopard (4)), and one is (Lion (1)) , and the other is not yet come (Dragon (1)), and when he (Dragon) cometh, he MUST continue a short space (continues for 42 months Rev. 13:5). And the beast that was (Lion), and is not (dominion taken away), even he is the eighth (little horn), and is of the seven (not seventh like most think remember the beast has seven heads). And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings….”.

Jude3b, I know the theory of Rome I even had a tape from which I would pass around stating such. The problem was that I did not study to show thyself approved. Please take time to study these passages and you will find as I have much of today's teaching on the end time are incorrect.

In Christ, Mark.

Dear Mark:

Please be so kind and tell me how to label your eschatalogical position. Meaning- Are you pre-mil? post-mil? a-mil? or something else? Also, what religion or denomination or sect are you a member of, if any? I only ask because I am trying to figure out where your teaching comes from.

[Joe Gofish]

Who is this prostitute?

Rev. 17

"1One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”


3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come. 9“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

It may be one of the new non-denominational churchs or maybe Benny Hinn and his group,or Jerry Falwell,Jimmy swaggart and old Pat.
What you think,I'm sorry I was NOT asking you to think that will be something new for you

[ross3421]

Dear Mark:

Please be so kind and tell me how to label your eschatalogical position. Meaning- Are you pre-mil? post-mil? a-mil? or something else? Also, what religion or denomination or sect are you a member of, if any? I only ask because I am trying to figure out where your teaching comes from.

My teaching has no denominational nor sect roots and it cannot be tied to one certain position which man has labeled.

Raised Catholic (unfortunately) then had several life changing events which brought me to salvation. Baptised in a Southern Baptist Church and currently attend a Christian Family Church. I did not go to seminary (thank goodness) and read every book I could get my hands on with a concentration towards prophecy.

God started to show me in the world what was supposed truth was not i.e history and understanding current affairs and that we are being lied to and that there was an ever evil in charge working through world leaders. I have since understood that this evil pervades in the church and that 99.9 % of main line prophecy being taught today is inaccurate. Satan truley has certain teachers working on his side to set up his return and kingdom.

I believe God users in a everlasting kingdom not a temporal one. The 1000 years is used as a metaphor.

I believe in no Rapture of anyone but a resurrection of all.

I believe the 70 weeks of Daniel are literal 490 future days culminating in Christ's return and the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles (1 week).

Check my posts for further info....

God Bless.

[Jude3b]

My teaching has no denominational nor sect roots and it cannot be tied to one certain position which man has labeled.

Raised Catholic (unfortunately) then had several life changing events which brought me to salvation. Baptised in a Southern Baptist Church and currently attend a Christian Family Church. I did not go to seminary (thank goodness) and read every book I could get my hands on with a concentration towards prophecy.

God started to show me in the world what was supposed truth was not i.e history and understanding current affairs and that we are being lied to and that there was an ever evil in charge working through world leaders. I have since understood that this evil pervades in the church and that 99.9 % of main line prophecy being taught today is inaccurate. Satan truley has certain teachers working on his side to set up his return and kingdom.

I believe God users in a everlasting kingdom not a temporal one. The 1000 years is used as a metaphor.

I believe in no Rapture of anyone but a resurrection of all.

I believe the 70 weeks of Daniel are literal 490 future days culminating in Christ's return and the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles (1 week).

Check my posts for further info....

God Bless.

Dear ross3421:

Thank you for your reply.

What do you call the time when Christ returns and the resurrection takes place? What is your scripture reference for that? Thanks,

[Joe Gofish]

My teaching has no denominational nor sect roots and it cannot be tied to one certain position which man has labeled.

Raised Catholic (unfortunately) then had several life changing events which brought me to salvation. Baptised in a Southern Baptist Church and currently attend a Christian Family Church. I did not go to seminary (thank goodness) and read every book I could get my hands on with a concentration towards prophecy.

God started to show me in the world what was supposed truth was not i.e history and understanding current affairs and that we are being lied to and that there was an ever evil in charge working through world leaders. I have since understood that this evil pervades in the church and that 99.9 % of main line prophecy being taught today is inaccurate. Satan truley has certain teachers working on his side to set up his return and kingdom.

I believe God users in a everlasting kingdom not a temporal one. The 1000 years is used as a metaphor.

I believe in no Rapture of anyone but a resurrection of all.

I believe the 70 weeks of Daniel are literal 490 future days culminating in Christ's return and the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles (1 week).

Check my posts for further info....

God Bless.

In the South, it is said, there are more Baptists than people. Besides a bit of humor about how numerous they are, the saying is a sly reference to the well-known Baptist practice of padding the church roll, yielding a larger total in the local Baptist association than there is in the census. But far from being a provincial denomination of rural churches, the Southern Baptist Convention has evolved into an organization that asserts its political clout and claims its prominence as the largest Protestant denomination, with 15.7 million members. Now convention leaders admit that figure is inflated by as much as a third. And since more reliable figures show that membership has remained flat throughout the '90s, they are searching for ways to start the church growing again. Messengers are expected to ratify two recommendations - to leave the organization's name as it is, and to hold next year's meeting in Orlando despite a boycott of the Walt Disney Co., which has a large entertainment complex there. The messengers also will be told that there are fewer Baptists than there were last year. In April, the Southern Baptist Convention reported that in 1998 it experienced its first drop in total membership in more than 70 years. The loss of 162,158 members is a 1 percent drop from the previous year.

[ross3421]

Dear ross3421:

Thank you for your reply.

What do you call the time when Christ returns and the resurrection takes place? What is your scripture reference for that? Thanks,

The time from when Christ returns to the resurrection is the DAY OF THE LORD.

This day starts out in darkness.

Acts 2:19,20 - "And I will show wonders in the heavens above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable Day of the Lord come".

This day starts after the 6th seal

Re 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Re 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This is the day Christ will return

I Thess 5:1,2 - "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night".

Rev 16:15-17 - "Behold, I come as a thief, blessed is he that watcheth, and keep his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air, and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying it is done".

The resurrection also happens this day for both godly and ungodly

1co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The old earth and heaven are destroyed this day

2pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Something that I just noticed and have overlooked. Check the phrase "and the works that are therein shall be burned up". Not only does this verse elude to the fact of a new heaven and earth but that this day which the works therein are burned up which cannot happen until they are judged first.


If your question is that this day could be 1000 years? It is not. It does not say that it is, the resurrection of the godly and ungodly occur together, the old heaven and earth are burn upon Christ's return and presence on and on...

Mark.

[Jude3b]

The time from when Christ returns to the resurrection is the DAY OF THE LORD.

This day starts out in darkness.

Acts 2:19,20 - "And I will show wonders in the heavens above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable Day of the Lord come".

This day starts after the 6th seal

Re 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Re 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This is the day Christ will return

I Thess 5:1,2 - "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night".

Rev 16:15-17 - "Behold, I come as a thief, blessed is he that watcheth, and keep his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air, and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying it is done".

The resurrection also happens this day for both godly and ungodly

1co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The old earth and heaven are destroyed this day

2pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Something that I just noticed and have overlooked. Check the phrase "and the works that are therein shall be burned up". Not only does this verse elude to the fact of a new heaven and earth but that this day which the works therein are burned up which cannot happen until they are judged first.


If your question is that this day could be 1000 years? It is not. It does not say that it is, the resurrection of the godly and ungodly occur together, the old heaven and earth are burn upon Christ's return and presence on and on...

Mark.

Dear Mark:

Thank you for that post.

So, would it be safe to say that your are teaching that The Day of the Lord, the Scriptural Rapture and the General Resurrection all take place On the Day of the Lord and that is one day and not 1000 years?

[ross3421]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for that post.

So, would it be safe to say that your are teaching that The Day of the Lord, the Scriptural Rapture and the General Resurrection all take place On the Day of the Lord and that is one day and not 1000 years?

This time period is not 1000 years, yes this is what I am saying. However, I did not say that it was a 24 hour period.

How long is this "day" ?

Mt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


Mt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mt 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Mt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mt 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


There is no day nor hour for it does not exsist. Again, the instruments used to measure time have vanished.

Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



What are you refering when you say "Scriptual Rapture" ??

God Bless, Mark.

[Jude3b]

This time period is not 1000 years, yes this is what I am saying. However, I did not say that it was a 24 hour period.

How long is this "day" ?

Mt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


Mt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mt 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Mt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mt 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


There is no day nor hour for it does not exsist. Again, the instruments used to measure time have vanished.

Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



What are you refering when you say "Scriptual Rapture" ??

God Bless, Mark.

Scriptural Rapture: Jesus returns and we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye.

[ross3421]

Scriptural Rapture: Jesus returns and we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye.

Are you speaking of the dead in the graves?

[Jude3b]

Are you speaking of the dead in the graves?

Dear ross3421:

Yes, of course, just like it talks about in I Thess. 4:16: "...the dead in Christ shall rise first..." (etc.)