Re: Abraham and Isaac

[JohnnyP]

That's wrong. Just look at the many verses that describe Jesus as the Lamb of God, and you'll see how far off the mark you are.

Like this, yes:

Source: KJV

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

© Copyright Original Source

Jesus was the leader of them, going among wolves to preach the Gospel. MLK went among wolves to call for civil rights. They were both killed for their beliefs, doing what they thought was right according to the will of God. With Jesus as cited from Hebrews, his obedience to the Father resulted in the Father giving Jesus authority over us.

If you think the NT really says a human sacrifice alone atones for sins, what do you think it means for Jesus to judge, that he just has an opinion of people and that's about it? Or do you think it has something to do with forgiving sins and giving mercy, or not, as he judges?

Source: KJV

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

© Copyright Original Source

So of course it was a personal sacrifice, just as any martyr, fireman, soldier, cop, etc. might sacrifice their lives for God and to save people. But the saving comes through the mercy he is able to give, not by some magical thing of just being nailed to the cross. That's just the way he got to that position of giving mercy and forgiveness of sin.

[Cow Poke]

All sacrifices are "short-lived" by definition. =P

Yeah? How many of them stay dead less then a week?

The point being the killing effected the propitiation.

He had the power to stop it. He chose not to. Not many "human sacrifices" have that power.

[whag]

Yeah? How many of them stay dead less then a week?

Granted, assuming it's true, he stayed dead shortly. That doesn't mean it's not a human sacrifice. The same act of scapegoating is involved.

He had the power to stop it. He chose not to. Not many "human sacrifices" have that power.

Not all humans who've been sacrificed were also God, that's true. They had the misfortune of staying permanently dead. Still, the mechanics are the same. The NT definitely calls it a sacrifice and Jesus was definitely a human according to the story, hence human sacrifice. No need to put it in quotes.

[Cow Poke]

Granted, assuming it's true, he stayed dead shortly. That doesn't mean it's not a human sacrifice. The same act of scapegoating is involved.

Not all humans who've been sacrificed were also God, that's true. They had the misfortune of staying permanently dead. Still, the mechanics are the same. The NT definitely calls it a sacrifice and Jesus was definitely a human according to the story, hence human sacrifice. No need to put it in quotes.

Meh... I think you're playing games. Calling it a "human sacrifice" has other connotations, and you know it.

[JohnnyP]

The NT definitely calls it a sacrifice and Jesus was definitely a human according to the story, hence human sacrifice.

So because MLK sacrificed his life doing God's will, you call it a human sacrifice?

Source: Martin Luther King, Jr.

Every step towards the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.

I just want to do God's will. And he's allowed me to go to the mountain. And I've looked over, and I've seen the promised land! I may not get there with you, but I want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised land.

© Copyright Original Source

[whag]

Meh... I think you're playing games. Calling it a "human sacrifice" has other connotations, and you know it.

You're in denial. Paul calls it a sacrifice. Jesus is called the Lamb of God. That that concept makes you uncomfortable is something you might want to examine.

[Cow Poke]

You're in denial. Paul calls it a sacrifice. Jesus is called the Lamb of God. That that concept makes you uncomfortable is something you might want to examine.

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, no doubt about it. Feel free to denigrate it all you want.

[whag]

So because MLK sacrificed his life doing God's will, you call it a human sacrifice?

Source: Martin Luther King, Jr.

Every step towards the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.

I just want to do God's will. And he's allowed me to go to the mountain. And I've looked over, and I've seen the promised land! I may not get there with you, but I want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised land.

© Copyright Original Source

If true, Jesus' crucifixion was literally "propitiation." That's what Christians believe, hence "human sacrifice."

MLK wasn't referring to his being a scapegoat for people's sins.

[whag]

Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, no doubt about it. Feel free to denigrate it all you want.

I'm not denigrating it by calling it what Paul and the apostles called it. I don't even believe it's true.

[Cow Poke]

I'm not denigrating it by calling it what Paul and the apostles called it.

Yeah, Paul called it "human sacrifice" -- he used that very term. He was more than Human, he was God incarnate.

I don't even believe it's true.

I am shocked. SHOCKED, I say!

[whag]

Yeah, Paul called it "human sacrifice" -- he used that very term. He was more than Human, he was God incarnate.

Granted that's what the bible says. No argument there. He was a human was was sacrificed, hence a human sacrifice. You're being ridiculous and overly defensive.

[Cow Poke]

Granted that's what the bible says. No argument there.

He was a human was was sacrificed, hence a human sacrifice.

I bet you call Babe Ruth "a baseball player".

You're being ridiculous and overly defensive.

Laughing.

Nope, just bored, and amused at your ... um... tactics. But that's OK! You're certainly free to call it what you like!

All done here!

[JohnnyP]

If true, Jesus' crucifixion was literally "propitiation." That's what Christians believe, hence "human sacrifice."

MLK wasn't referring to his being a scapegoat for people's sins.

Neither is the NT if you read the whole of it. You never answered my question either, how do you think Jesus judges the quick and the dead, does he just give opinions? Or is it about giving mercy and forgiveness, or punishment, as he chooses? What does the NT say about it?

If you think it says his death on the cross alone atoned for sins as a human sacrifice, then you haven't read the whole thing.

[whag]

I bet you call Babe Ruth "a baseball player".

Should I call him a hockey player?

Laughing.

Nope, just bored, and amused at your ... um... tactics. But that's OK! You're certainly free to call it what you like!

All done here!

I'm equally amused that you deny what the Bible affirms. You're weird, Cow Poke.

[Cow Poke]

Should I call him a hockey player?

Wouldn't surprise me!